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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: redemption collector 777 on December 05, 2013, 09:09:01 PM
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1. In this example would the hero (Miriam) be considered "the last card played' and the EC gains the initiative?
If Aaron 6/4 (Green) begins a RA and bands Miriam 4/4 with total of 10/8
then is blocked by (Gray) Laban 9/9.
2. Would the hero get to play the first enhancement in this example?
Levi (blue) with weapon Helmet of brass SA: Hero may play the first enhancement after the blocker is presented.
then is blocked by The jeering youths SA: If blocking an O.T human hero ,may play an O.T brown enhancement. (and wants to play enhancement)
3. Would Levi or EC play the first enhancement?
Levi has Helmet of brass and Lacking Sleep placed on him SA: While hero is lacking sleep player must allow the opponent to play the first enhancement in battle and is blocked by any EC.
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1) The heroes would play first, because the band happens before the evil character enters battle.
2) The evil character gets to play first. Essentially Helmet of Brass is a delayed trigger that triggers after the block, but for anything to happen after the block happens the block needs to finish which includes the evil character's ability.
3) I actually don't know in this case. My first instinct is that the evil character would play first, but I don't really have a good reason for why, so don't trust me on it.
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1. What should the player do if a search or exchange ability is negated? Should they put the exchanged or searched card on top of draw pile or shuffle it back in?
2. Could a single hero set themselves a side in a battle when they have normal initiative with an enhancement like Prayer and fasting SA: set Hero a side . hero gains 1/1.. and leaves battle?
3. Would Joseph in prison enhancement still remove all cards in battle from the game or does the SA stay interrupted in this example?
EC in battle plays Joseph in prison , and then hero interrupts it with Reach and plays no enhancement and the SA is done on reach.
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1. The card would get shuffled in if it was searched for/exchanged. If exchanged than the original card that was exchanged would go back to where it was before the exchange. If a card was searched for, put in battle, but then the search card was negated, all the effects of the search card would be negated, so the card would go back into deck, but its special ability wouldn't be un-active or reversed by just putting it back in draw pile.
Ex. Miriam 4/4, blocked by Egyptian Warden.
Miriam plays search: search your deck for any card. She searches for Behold the Lamb: interrupt the battle and reveal a lamb icon card in your hand to discard up to three evil enhancements and/or curses, Cannot be negated.
Then Egyptian Warden plays Mask of Fear: all special abilities on character cards and enhancement cards except this one are interrupted and prevented, battle is determined by the numbers.
Search is negated, so Behold the Lamb is shuffled back into draw pile, but its special ability stays active in battle, the negating of search doesn't negate the cards of searched cards, even if they are sent back to their original position, the playing of the cards is not reversed.
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1) If a card that searches a deck (whether it exchanges or not) gets negated, you shuffle the searched card back into the deck.
2) Yes, however it has to follow the normal rules of initiative.
3) Yes, interrupting on its own won't stop a card from resolving, so after Reach is finished and no enhancement is played (or one that doesn't stop Joseph in Prison from 'reactivating') Joseph in Prison will remove everything from the game.
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1. Are Curses treated like artifacts? If so could any enhancement card that says "negate and/or discard an active artifact " target a curse?
Like casting lots (black and Gray) , lying unto god , captured ark , Angelic advice etc?
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Curses are artifacts when they are in the artifact pile or some other place as an artifact, but not when in battle as an enhancement. So you can discard your opponent's Unknown Nation with Lying Unto God in the artifact pile, but not if they have played it in battle as an enhancement.
I am also fairly sure that they are artifacts at face value, so if you are searching for an artifact you can search for Captured Ark, although I'm not 100% sure about this one.
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To answer your original #3 from the first post, in cases where conflicting abilities are active, the one that was active first would take precedence. In this case, since Lacking Sleep targeted the Hero before he entered battle, it would take precedence over Helmet of Brass and the EC would get to play first.
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Agree that curses and covenants are both enhancements and artifacts until played, just like everything that is dual-something. Also agree with browarod's assessment of the conflicting abilities, based on the Wandering Spirit - Tartaros ruling. It is a funky situation, but it should play out like that, yes.
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1. If you can only heal a character on the same turn it was discarded , then how can the card Torment be used?
SA: Heal any Evil Character that is being discarded , except by a dominant.
If my blocking EC is discarded from battle , could I play it on an EC in my territory to heal my blocking EC even though it is not my turn?
One example: Would this work?
While in battle I play enhancement card Failed objective SA: discard all EC in battle , All LS are protected from being rescued by heroes this turn and then play Torment to return the EC to territory?
2. Is it possible for a hero to go for a BC and has no site access to any LS , then suddenly the hero has site access because of a SA on an enhancement (like crushing blow Purple) and then it turns into a RA?
3. Is deck , discard pile , hand , set aside area and LoR still considered in the field of play? (or is it out of play?)
Could Dominants like CM (discard any hero in play) target any hero in a set a side area?
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1. You are correct that you can play it even on your opponent's turn, and that your example is valid. That is how all healing works, and on both alignments. For example, I can use Brass Serpent on your turn if you discard my hero, and you can use Torment on my turn if I discard your EC. Either is valid.
Playing Healing Enhancements
Healing enhancements can be played in battle (during the battle phase) or outside of battle. When played during the battle phase they must be played according to the rules that govern when other enhancements can be played. A player has the option to play a healing enhancement during the preparation phase and the discard phase. A healing enhancement played in this way must be played on a character of matching brigade in one of two ways: (1) on a character in the holder's territory or (2) on a character in the holder's discard pile (if the character was discarded in the same turn). Both result in that character being healed. Healing cards played on a character in a discard pile must target the same character.
2. Yes. If you had Ethiopian Treasurer play Crushing Blow from your example, the BC becomes a RA. Similarly, if your opponent blocks your BC and your hero(es) gains access during the battle, it also becomes a RA. The state of BC/RA can be fluid.
3. Hand, deck, discard pile, set-aside, and LoR are not in play. The only things in play are Field of Battle, territory, and Land of Bondage. CM cannot target a hero in set-aside, since it defaults to play (those three locations above).
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1. You are correct that you can play it even on your opponent's turn, and that your example is valid. That is how all healing works, and on both alignments. For example, I can use Brass Serpent on your turn if you discard my hero, and you can use Torment on my turn if I discard your EC. Either is valid.
Playing Healing Enhancements
Healing enhancements can be played in battle (during the battle phase) or outside of battle. When played during the battle phase they must be played according to the rules that govern when other enhancements can be played. A player has the option to play a healing enhancement during the preparation phase and the discard phase. A healing enhancement played in this way must be played on a character of matching brigade in one of two ways: (1) on a character in the holder's territory or (2) on a character in the holder's discard pile (if the character was discarded in the same turn). Both result in that character being healed. Healing cards played on a character in a discard pile must target the same character.
(New question)1. Does this mean that you may play a healing enhancement only on your opponents discard phase , preparation phase and battle phase or any time on opponents turn?
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You may only play healing cards:
1. In battle, when you could normally play the card by normal rules/initiative.
2. In any prep or discard phase during which you have a valid target.
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1. If an artifact like HoH : this card cannot be negated is discarded by DON (Dominant) during the battle phase , does the effect of it only last until the battle phase is over?
2. If covenant I am Patience part of SA: you may convert one human EC to a Green hero ( has already converted 3 human EC to Heroes , are still in play) and is discarded and negated by DON do the 3 characters go back to EC?
3. If a brown EC is blocking and plays Image of Jealousy (texp) during the battle phase and places it on an opponents fortress does the EC still gain the 1/3 on it?
3.1 Even though it is not in battle when it is placed , can the rescuing hero still interrupt or negate it? with a interrupt the battle or negate last card?
4. If a player plays Casting lots during the discard phase (gray territory class) SA: negate artifacts , does the negate only last until the end of the player's discard phase?
5. Is is possible for a good banding enhancement to be ignored by HHI?
That is the good banding enhancement can not enter the field of battle? unless it has CBP or CBN or you can still play it but the SA on it takes no effect?
6. If a Hero goes for a BC (with rescuer's choice rule) and then gets site access is the battle still a BC because the rescuing player did not specify which LS they are going for?
7. Does the effect of Auto ( protect Gideon from opponents CBN) lasts until the end of the Battle phase even though auto was exchanged in the discard pile for Gideon?
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1. Correct. If a CBN card with an ongoing ability is discarded, the ongoing ability lasts until the end of the current phase.
2. No. Instant abilities completed in prior phases/turns are CBN. If you negate/discard it later it doesn't undo the conversions that were already completed.
3. I've always assumed that the numbers do not count because the enhancement is no longer in battle but I'm not 100% sure on that.
3.1 Yes there are ways (such as the 2 you described) to negate a card that places itself outside of battle.
4. Yes. Negate is an ongoing ability so unless it's on a card that stays in play the negate only lasts until the end of the phase in which it is played.
5. Enhancements can be ignored, technically, but it doesn't specifically affect the enhancement. You can still play an ignored enhancement and (assuming it's CBN or CBP, in this case) it activates as normal. Ignoring an enhancement does not specifically accomplish anything.
6. If you are playing with the Rescuer's Choice rule then anytime a Hero initiates a battle the player must select a Lost Soul to attempt to rescue (even if they don't have access). If they gain access to that Soul during the battle challenge it becomes a rescue attempt.
7. Yes. As said before, ongoing abilities last until the end of the phase in which they are played unless they are negated. Since AuTO is CBN the protection cannot be negated and persists until the end of the battle phase.
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Referring to Question 5 so if I play a good banding enhancement in battle with no CBN or CBP status , the SA on it will take no effect and only the numbers on it will count while HHI is active?
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Referring to Question 5 so if I play a good banding enhancement in battle with no CBN or CBP status , the SA on it will take no effect and only the numbers on it will count while HHI is active?
HHI's ability, while it sounds odd, basically means that any hero with a band ability is ignored (cannot enter battle), and any abilities on good non-character cards that allow heroes to band are prevented (for a more in-depth explanation, see this post (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/household-idols-questions/msg282538/#msg282538)).
Agree 100% with browarod's post for all other questions as well.
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1. If Isaiah was in battle and had Isaiah's Call (enhancement) on him SA: While in battle Isaiah has site Access and negates LS ,Sites and EC.
Does Isaiah still negate Archelaus SA CBP by a hero?
even though the enhancement is causing the negate?
1.1 If Isaiah (with Isaiah's call with on him) and Seraph with a live coal were in battle and then Isaiah was discarded , does the negate of the Isaiah's call still lasts even though the enhancement says "While in Battle" and Isaiah SA says Good Isaiah cards CBN?
2. If a Side battle is negated does the effects of the enhancement cards played in that side are also negated?
3.If Grapes of wrath was played during a RA , does the term "begin a new battle" mean begin a new RA?
4.If Aaron (disciples) bands to Moses and then blocked by Naaman SA: O.T enhancement CBN and plays Pestilence (O.T enhancement) to discard Moses , does the Negate all part of Moses still lasts until the end of the battle phase?
5.If a card does not say " in play" Like "discard a hero" does this mean you could target a hero in a set aside area (which is considered out of play)
6. Lets say there was the Tabernacle in play with an artifact in it.
Would that artifact be safe if the fortress was negated and then discard by ASA?
7. Is there anything in the REG or forums that states that contents follow their hosts or something like that?
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1. The rule would be that Call does not prevent Archelaus. The reason is twofold. First, enhancements played by a character are "of that character" for the purposes of these abilities. Any enhancements played by heroes that would prevent Archelaus's ability prior to him being active would count as that hero trying to prevent him, so he would still work. Second, Isaiah's Call says that Isaiah negates all those abilities, and so it also cannot affect Archelaus before he activates.
1.1 No. Abilities last until the end of the current phase unless the timeframe specifies something else. "While in play" or "While in battle" both have a specific end condition, and the ability cannot persist afterwards. It does not stop the negation of cards that already took place, but it does stop the prevention going forward.
2. Yes. Only CBI or CBN abilities would not be undone.
3. Yes, though it just means that you can start a new battle if the conditions are met. The next battle could start as a RA or BC, without regard to the state of the previous battle.
4. Yes. As mentioned before, all abilities last through the end of the current phase unless a different timeframe or condition is specified. Since Moses has no conditions, and was not negated, the FBTN persists until end of battle.
5. No. Default for almost all abilities is "in play" and discard is one of those. For reference, you can see the default targeting of an ability in the REG (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/downloads/REG_PDF_v1.0.2.pdf).
6. No. Placed cards go with the cards on which they are placed. Even in the case where the contents are protected, they still follow their 'holder' wherever they go.
7. Yes.
Movement of Cards “Placed On” Other Cards
If a card is placed on another card and the underlying card is relocated, the placed card is generally relocated to the same location that the underlying card is relocated and remains there. Exceptions to this rule are:
- Lost Souls that are placed in sites are always returned to the general Land of Bondage and do not follow the underlying sites when the sites are relocated.
- Any card placed on a Lost Soul is discarded if the Lost Soul is relocated outside its original Land of Bondage.
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1. For determining X ( X = number of each opponent's good brigades in play) for Zeresh advises Haman Would opponent's Good fortresses and multi - single coloured brigade heroes and good enhancements in a territory count for X?
So for example if opponent has 1 gold hero , 1 green hero and 2 good fortresses does X = 4?
2.if Eli the priest was put into battle (blue brigade) SA: Search draw pile for an O.T artifact , can you search your draw pile for an O.T Curse?
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1. No. Fortresses and Doms are colorless, the rainbow background just differentiates good from evil. But Aaron (green and Teal), Simon the Zealot (Purple and red), and Seeker of the Lost (red, blue and yellow) would be 6. Or you could just get lucky and catch him with Paul for 8.
2. When Eli enters battle, yes. Curses are targetable as artifacts while in hand, draw, artifact, and discard pile.
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2. No. Instant abilities completed in prior phases/turns are CBN. If you negate/discard it later it doesn't undo the conversions that were already completed.
New question 1. So if I am patience converts a human EC to a Hero during the discard phase , does the effect on the instant ability become CBN prior to it completing in the discard phase? or by next players discard phase?
2. In a two player game if player A has 3 redeemed LS and then plays Sog and NJ , then player B plays Falling Away does the game still continue? or does the game end prior to receiving the 5th LS?
3. Does good enhancements in a territory as well as heroes (Like lifting the Curse) count as a good brigade for enhancements like Zeresh advises Haman (X = number of each opponent's good brigades in play)
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1. Once a phase ends, anything that completed in a prior phase (any prior phase) is CBN from that point forward. In your example, once the next person started their turn, that conversion is no longer able to be negated. It has completed in a prior phase.
2. You cannot play any cards, including dominants, during the resolution of another ability, and a player wins when they reach 5 souls by game rule. If you play SOG+NJ while at 3 in a T1 game, you cannot not have FA stop you anymore, you just win.
3. Ah, tricky question. It really depends on the wording of the card. Anything that says "that opponent has" or "on opponent's cards" refers to ownership and control. So, your example works, but a card like Sowing the Seed (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Sowing_the_Seed_(Ap)) would not count, because your opponent would not 'own' it.
When cards talk about "your" cards or "opponent's" cards or "their" cards, they only trigger for cards with both ownership and control by the same player. Cards that refer only to "in territory" or "control" only refer to control, and don't require ownership.
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1. Would it be true that if a single hero in battle is blocked by Emperor Nero (immune to lone heroes) and hero plays sword against sword to cause a side battle hero can not target Emperor Nero for the side battle because of immunity?
2.If a fortress like Goshen was negated by image of Jealousy and it had 3 heroes in it , would the heroes have to return to owner's hand?
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1. Yes.
2. Only if they were placed that phase. Place/Hold abilities that completed in a prior phase are CBN after the phase in which they completed, but if you were to negate a fortress in the phase during which a special ability on the fortress allowed cards to be placed/held, they would return to their previous location.
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I have a question. If you have 3 heroes in City of Refuge http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/City_of_Refuge_%28Pi%29 (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/City_of_Refuge_%28Pi%29) and Image of Jealousy is placed on it, can you get the heroes back while Image is placed?
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I'm fairly certain you can, as the default rule is that you can add or remove characters from fortresses during prep phase, and there shouldn't be anything stopping you from removing while the fortress is negated. Good question, though.
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Are these questions correct? if not please correct them thanks.
1.If 2 heroes were placed in Goshen (however many turns ago or in the same turn) and then Goshen got negated by image , could the heroes still removed or exchanged during prep phase?
and
1.1 if the 2 heroes were placed in Goshen during the draw phase and then the fortress got negated by image during that players battle phase they would return back to territory?
2.For some reason I just do not understand the word "prior in or to" , so if player A had holy grail and converted an EC during that player's discard phase the conversion officially becomes CBN when it is Player B's discard phase?
3. So mostly in general if any card that is in battle or has an ongoing effect (like a fortress or artifact , site etc unless it has a end time frame) was discarded but not negated their effects will usually only last until the end of the phase it was discarded in?
4. What if holder has Roman prison site SA: if you use a Roman solider or emperor to block a RA at this site you draw or reveal opponent's hand.
and holder blocks with Emperor Nero which says discard all Roman sites in play.
Would you still be able to use the SA on the site?
5. Is there somewhere that states that Instant abilities completed in prior phases/turns are CBN? or something similar?
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1. I'm fairly certain this is yes, but remember that those with toughness 0 or less would be immediately discarded by game rule.
1.1 No, though it would have happened during prep phase, not draw phase.
2. Once a phase has passed, any completed ability from a prior phase is CBN. If I do something in battle, nothing can undo it during the following discard phase. If I do something during my own discard phase, you can't undo it once your draw phase starts, or any time after that.
3. Yes. By default, all ongoing abilities last until the end of the current phase. Specific cards may behave differently based on their ability, but that is default.
4. Character abilities must finish before they are considered to be in battle. By the time that Nero has blocked, he has discarded Roman Prison, and so he is not blocking a RA at that site.
5. There is a bit in the REG under End the Battle, though it should probably be spelled out more clearly as a general rule, agreed. It is intuitive, however, because if you were allowed to negate things in the past, this game would become just unplayable, and the results of battles could be undone after the fact. The part I mentioned earlier:
All end the battle abilities effectively have ”cannot be interrupted” status because the ability is used in the battle phase and causes the battle phase to end, and abilities can only be interrupted or negated during the phase in which they are used.
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I think he's getting Phase and Turn slightly mixed up. Anything that is completed in one phase is CBN once the next phase begins. It doesn't wait until the coressponding phase in the next turm, but rather the very next phase.
Example: I use Holy Grail to convert one of your two crimson evil characters in my prep phase and then activate garden tomb with Peter in my territory. I then start a battle. You can no longer play DoN to negate the convert in order to block with your crimson evil character, because it is now the battle phase and the convert has become CBN.
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1. I'm fairly certain this is yes, but remember that those with toughness 0 or less would be immediately discarded by game rule.
1.1 No, though it would have happened during prep phase, not draw phase.
2. Once a phase has passed, any completed ability from a prior phase is CBN. If I do something in battle, nothing can undo it during the following discard phase. If I do something during my own discard phase, you can't undo it once your draw phase starts, or any time after that.
3. Yes. By default, all ongoing abilities last until the end of the current phase. Specific cards may behave differently based on their ability, but that is default.
4. Character abilities must finish before they are considered to be in battle. By the time that Nero has blocked, he has discarded Roman Prison, and so he is not blocking a RA at that site.
5. There is a bit in the REG under End the Battle, though it should probably be spelled out more clearly as a general rule, agreed. It is intuitive, however, because if you were allowed to negate things in the past, this game would become just unplayable, and the results of battles could be undone after the fact. The part I mentioned earlier:
All end the battle abilities effectively have ”cannot be interrupted” status because the ability is used in the battle phase and causes the battle phase to end, and abilities can only be interrupted or negated during the phase in which they are used.
+1
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The Goshen question depends on which version you're referring to. The Promo version has a Holds identifier (and identifiers are CBN) so even with Image of Jealousy you could add/remove Heroes from there (though the instead would not function). For the Warriors and C deck versions, their whole ability to hold Heroes is the special ability so if it's negated then I would rule that the Heroes are stuck there and you can't add/remove any.
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1. Is a card considered "played " and in battle when the SA on it has completed?
2. To the present day of current redemption rules on dominants , (in rescuer's choice) after a hero has won a RA and battle resolution is over could you.
2.1 Still play burial to discard the LS that was chosen to rescue
2.2 play CM to discard the hero
2.3 or use Unholy writ to capture it or use unknown nation , Gates of Hell or Madness to add an EC to the battle?
2.4 or rescue your own LS with SoG?
So the hero does not rescue the LS?
3. Curse Unsuccessful SA: Negate the last good Enhancement played in battle (may be used once)
3.1 Does this mean you can only use the effect on it once and then it must be discarded?
or once every turn?
4. If a hero with 3/3 goes for RA and blocked by an EC with 1/1 and plays Hunger SA: decrease one opponents heroes by 6/6
4.1 Does the hero get special initiative to negate hunger or does hero not get SI and gets discarded because of game rule ( if a character has toughness /0 they get discarded )
5. Can the original SoG card successfully rescue LS (shut door) or would the LS be under decked before it can get a chance to rescue it?
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1. Is a card considered "played " and in battle when the SA on it has completed?
Yes, in most cases that is when it is played.
A card is considered “played” if it meets these criteria:
You play an enhancement by attempting to activate its special ability (or numbers
in battle)
You play a character or multicolor site by putting it in your territory or your side
of the battle.
You play any other card type by putting it face up on the playing surface from
hand, deck, or discard pile due to your special ability or game action, except
when you discard a card from hand.
To the present day of current redemption rules on dominants , (in rescuer's choice) after a hero has won a RA and battle resolution is over could you.
I'm going to answer all of these at once. If a hero has 'won' a battle, or anyone has won the battle, that means it is in Battle Resolution. Nothing, not even dominants, can be played during Battle Resolution.
You go to Battle Resolution when there is an 'end the battle' effect or both players have finished playing cards and move to resolve the end of the battle. If everyone passes and you go to determining which characters are defeated, that is it for the battle phase. You cannot, for example, decide to "lose" with your Assyrian Survivor, resolve his defeat ability, and then play Christian Martyr / Burial / activate Unholy Writ / rescue with SoG. You must do those before deciding to be done with playing cards.
Note that if one side is defeated by removal due to special ability, you still have the option of playing cards and activating abilities before Battle Resolution. It is only when both players are finished doing so that Battle Resolution begins.
3. Curse Unsuccessful SA: Negate the last good Enhancement played in battle (may be used once)
3.1 Does this mean you can only use the effect on it once and then it must be discarded?
or once every turn?
Once and then discarded. By default, when an artifact uses up the last use, it is discarded.
4. If a hero with 3/3 goes for RA and blocked by an EC with 1/1 and plays Hunger SA: decrease one opponents heroes by 6/6
4.1 Does the hero get special initiative to negate hunger or does hero not get SI and gets discarded because of game rule ( if a character has toughness /0 they get discarded )
Yes, SI is granted. SI is granted whenever the last character on a side would be removed from battle as a result of a special ability, regardless of what game rule is triggered.
5. Can the original SoG card successfully rescue LS (shut door) or would the LS be under decked before it can get a chance to rescue it?
The ability to underdeck cannot insert itself into SoG rescuing the soul. The soul is rescued by the current status quo (I believe).
However, it is an interesting situation, because if we follow similar rulings on cards like Assyrian Survivor and PG Panic Demon, it should be an ability that resolves regardless of where the card ends up. By those precedents, and the rules on this type of card, the ability cannot insert itself in another ability, but it resolves as a result of the trigger.
So, by rule, it should be rescued by SoG, and then if the player did not win (automatic state when the limit is reached), it should be pulled from Land of Redemption and placed under owner's deck, if the option is exercised.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
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3. Curse Unsuccessful SA: Negate the last good Enhancement played in battle (may be used once)
3.1 Does this mean you can only use the effect on it once and then it must be discarded?
or once every turn?
Once and then discarded. By default, when an artifact uses up the last use, it is discarded.
Then can you search that same artifact out of your discard pile and use it again? I always thought the "May be used once/twice" abilities were like Jepthah's, you can use them once/twice per game.
Example: If Pagan Priests searched back Captured Ark (that has been used twice) can it be used twice more?
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Artifacts that have a use limit are discarded when they reach that limit, and could be used again once reset in hand, deck, or discard. Cards like Jephthah are specifically "X times per game", which are for all copies of the card used by that player.
If it does not specify that it can only be used a certain amount of times per game, then it by default is not limited to a certain number of times per game.
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1. Can you still rescue your own LS with SoG? or is there a rule that you can not rescue your own as of now?
2. If a single hero begins a RA and completes their SA (with rescuer's choice) and a blocker is not presented yet could you play CM to discard hero , burial to discard chosen LS in your Lob or use unholy writ to capture it?
3. If a hero tries to rescue a LS in the site Hormah SA: If your human EC is discarded you may place this site and its contents beneath owner's deck , and defeats the blocking human EC is the rescue successful or does the site under deck it self before the LS is rescued?
4. If hero Asaph SA: Good enhancements involving music CBN by evil cards plays enhancement card
Magnificat SA: Negate SA on characters set aside an EC in battle for 2 turns can the enhancement now be negated by an EC?
5. Just wondering why is the LS card (FBTN) named fight by the numbers? it only negates SA on Lost Soul cards?
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1. Can you still rescue your own LS with SoG? or is there a rule that you can not rescue your own as of now?
The rule is now that you can only rescue from opponents. That was a change from the original rules recently, but it is the current rule.
2. If a single hero begins a RA and completes their SA (with rescuer's choice) and a blocker is not presented yet could you play CM to discard hero , burial to discard chosen LS in your Lob or use unholy writ to capture it?
Yes, you can play dominants (both sides) before a blocker is presented.
3. If a hero tries to rescue a LS in the site Hormah SA: If your human EC is discarded you may place this site and its contents beneath owner's deck , and defeats the blocking human EC is the rescue successful or does the site under deck it self before the LS is rescued?
If the ability goes off, it resolves before the soul is surrendered, at the moment of the discard by special ability, game rule, or numbers (as that is the trigger). If that means that there is no longer a soul that can be given, then the RA fails.
4. If hero Asaph SA: Good enhancements involving music CBN by evil cards plays enhancement card
Magnificat SA: Negate SA on characters set aside an EC in battle for 2 turns can the enhancement now be negated by an EC?
No, any ability that grants "Cannot be..." status to other cards is itself CBN. As you can see, not doing that causes loops.
5. Just wondering why is the LS card (FBTN) named fight by the numbers? it only negates SA on Lost Soul cards?
FBTN is just a blanket term that has been used for that type of in-battle ability. When the soul was printed, it was an easy name to apply, even if the abilities don't match up.
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5. Just wondering why is the LS card (FBTN) named fight by the numbers? it only negates SA on Lost Soul cards?
FBTN is just short-hand for "negate all abilities, battle is determined by the numbers." The LS doesn't cause a FBTN state in battle, but rather it refers to the first part, the "Negate all" ability.
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1. So if any card that grants " CBP , CBI , CBN" to other cards are CBN themselves then , does the CBP Lost Soul can not have it's SA negated by FBTN Lost Soul? or the new SoG card?
2. In a 2 player game If 1 hero and 1 EC is in battle and then AotL is played to discard blocker can the opposing player play CM to discard hero to prevent the rescue? or by the time Aotl is finished completing it is already battle resolution?
3. It is possible for a player to activate an artifact (Like Wash Basin) SA: On activation reveal the bottom X cards of opponent's deck , they leave it face up during their 1st turn and then by their 2nd turn , can they place the Wash Basin card face down , and then face up to activate it's SA for their 2nd turn?
4. If you have Tables in your artifact pile and Altar of Incense in your (Pa) Solomon's temple , could you switch the two when it is your turn? and if so , would that action be considered activating an artifact? (as the diagram of a turn says activate an artifact once per turn during your prep phase)
5. if abilities that are completed in a prior phase are CBN , what about image of Jealousy being placed on a fortress? Is the reason why it may not be CBN is because the SA on it has not yet completed? or is it another reason?
6. If Simon the Zealot (7/4) with first strike enters battle and then is blocked by The Goat with horn (11/4) and has first strike and no player plays enhancements and it is battle resolution who would win the battle?
7.Would it be true if a SA on any card (like discard , capture , remove from game , protect etc) usually default to "in the field of play" unless it specifies to target a card that is in the set a side area , hand , draw or discard pile?.
7.1 Would artifact Lampy : SA Protect all cards not in battle from evil dominants. still protect cards in hands and LoR or is it default "in play " ?
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1. Correct.
2. It can be played. Battle Resolution is only after all players have finished playing enhancements, activating abilities, and playing dominants (or an "end the battle" ability is played). If both players decide to go to resolution (they stop playing, and go to determining who wins by the numbers), then no dominants can be played.
3. Artifacts always reactivate during prep phase, while artifacts are being handled. So, at that point in your prep phase (whenever you do it), you can do the "on activation" ability. However, you cannot deactivate an artifact, play/activate another card (which could be stopped by the artifact, such as with Covenant with Death), and then reactivate that same artifact. Once you decide to deactivate the artifact, you have made that choice for the whole prep phase; you either 'activate' it then (as with Wash Basin) and do its ability, or you cannot reactivate it later if you did another ability in between.
4. Interesting question. I would rule that, since all artifacts essentially 'deactivate' during the artifact step for you to reactivate, that it would be legal to switch them. On reactivation, you would just have the Temple target a different a different artifact with its hold. Others may have a different interpretation, I do not know that this is explicit in the rules.
5. Good question. The only part that has completed is the Place ability, and that is CBN. The rest of the ability is ongoing and continuous, and it does not "complete" in a previous phase. So, you can negate Image's ongoing component in later phases, but you cannot negate the Place.
6. Both are discarded by mutual destruction. First strike only means you aren't discarded in mutual destruction if only one side has it; if both have it, mutual destruction occurs. Both are discarded, hero gets a soul (if applicable).
7. (Missed first time, started response before question added in edit) Almost all abilities default to play, yes. You can see what the default conditions are in the REG (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/downloads/REG_PDF_v1.0.2.pdf).
7.1 It only protects cards that are "not in battle", which has been defined (and does not include hands):
Several Redemption® cards contain special abilities that refer to cards that are “not in battle”. Cards "not in battle" are cards found in (1) territories, (2) set aside areas, and (3) Lands of Redemption.
Since it has a defined target, it does not default to "in play", but to those three locations instead.
EDIT: There is a debate on #6, which has been moved here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/discussion-about-current-first-strike-vs-first-strike-rules/).
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Questions mostly related to artifacts
I am Salvation: Negate all SA on LS cards May be used twice.
Burial Shroud SA: Holder may not make a RA or be attacked May be used twice.
1. Does the effect on the 2 artifacts mentioned above last for that one player's turn (whoever owns one of them) or one round?
2. If player A on their 1st turn activates an artifact I am Salvation (for the first time and uses it's effect) , leaves it face up on that turn.
Then on Player A's 2nd turn ( I am Salvation is still face up ) if they did not mention that they are using its effect for the 2nd time (during prep phase) and they go to the next phase (discard phase) could we assume that the effect of it must take place for the 2nd time because they did not choose to deactivate it?
3. If the effect on artifacts were used for the 2nd time does the artifact get discarded at the end of the turn , round or right on reactivation?
4. Is there a difference between deactivating or negating an artifact? or are they the same thing?
Other Question
5. Are any special abilities that state " at any time" can they be used when another SA is resolving itself as well?
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1. Artifacts with ongoing abilities are always active, regardless of whose turn it is.
2. That is correct. Leaving an artifact up is consenting to keep it active for another round.
3. In the cases of artifacts like Holy Grail with instant abilities, the artifact is discarded immediately upon activating the second use. I'm not sure if that's the same with artifacts that have ongoing abilities (like your 2 examples) though I would assume they'd stay until their effect expires during your next turn after using its last use.
4. Deactivating an artifact is a game action whereas negate is a special ability. Deactivating an artifact does not negate it insomuch as it doesn't undo anything the artifact has already done, though ongoing abilities do cease to be active upon deactivating an artifact much like if it was negated.
5. No. No cards can activate while an ability is resolving regardless of what it says. "At any time" just means you don't have to have initiative to use the ability (for example, even if you're winning the battle you could decide to discard the bottom card of your deck with Gates of Hell) and it can be used during any player's turn.
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3. In the cases of artifacts like Holy Grail with instant abilities, the artifact is discarded immediately upon activating the second use. I'm not sure if that's the same with artifacts that have ongoing abilities (like your 2 examples) though I would assume they'd stay until their effect expires during your next turn after using its last use.
My understanding has always been that the 'counters' for turns are incremented during the upkeep phase, and so it would be discarded then.
Agree with browarod on all points.
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Just to clarify with question 2 , by the player's 2nd turn even if the artifact is still face up , they can still activate a different artifact in their artifact pile as long as they choose not to activate the SA on the I am salvation card for the 2nd turn?
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Just to clarify with question 2 , by the player's 2nd turn even if the artifact is still face up , they can still activate a different artifact in their artifact pile as long as they choose not to activate the SA on the I am salvation card for the 2nd turn?
Correct, it would have one 'turn used' of its two (which only resets in hand, deck, or discard), but then you activate a different artifact instead.
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A turn starts with the draw phase.
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A turn starts with the draw phase.
sorry just deleted the post after the question was answered.
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1. Would this be considered one for full turn for set a side like The Sabbath
Player A 1st turn set aside during prep phase , Player A 3rd turn upkeep phase (to change counter) and then prep phase return back to territory?
2. Can these set side enhancement gained SA only be used once by one character in a single battle?
The Sabbath SA: Set aside all of your human Heroes for one turn. For the next one of those Heroes that enters battle good enhancements use by that CBN.
Witnesses to Creation: Set one Silver hero for 7 turns. The next time hero enters battle he can not be blocked by humans.
Questions about Lost Soul (Wanderer)
LS ( Wanderer) SA: If this card is in your territory during your preparation phase , you may exchange it with a LS in an opponent's territory.
3. Can you exchange LS (Wanderer) with another LS in an opponents that is in a site?
3.1.After being exchanged once can an opponent who has the LS in their territory exchange it back?
3.2 If player A exchanges (Wanderer) with either LS (CBP) (Shut door) (Far Country) (Evicter) from Player B's territory can Player B use the LS effect for their own use?
3.3 Can you exchange a Lost Soul in an opponent's site like LS cards (hand discard) (deck discard) choose one of those LS and put them in one of your sites to do the SA and then do this repeatedly?
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1. Set-asides are counted during the controlling player's upkeep, each upkeep. At least that's how I remember it, it's hard to keep those rules straight sometimes ;)
2. It does exactly what it says, and no more: For Sabbath, only the next of those heroes to enter battle (even if they all banded it, the first one is the only one that counts) plays CBN enhancements, and it is only for that one battle; for Witness, the next time he enters battle, and only that battle, he ignores humans. If it lasted longer, it would say so, and there are some that specify that the character "gains" something or has it "until discarded".
3. Yes indeed. And any soul exchanged counts as being placed in a site, if it ends up there as the result of an exchange.
3.1 They control it, so they can use its ability just as it reads as well.
3.2 Depends. If they say "when drawn" or "when put into play", then no, because you didn't do those things. If they say "when put in a site", then yes you can, because you did that.
3.3 Yep, as mentioned above, you could both keep swapping them back and forth and hitting each other, since it counts as placing them in a site. Fun times.
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Questions mostly about set aside areas and ownership of cards.
1. If I decide to exchange an EC in an opponent's territory with Seven wicked spirits SA: you may interrupt all Fortresses and exchange this EC with any other EC in play or set-aside area
and want to target an EC that is in an opponent's set aside area by Molech worship (gains 1/1 for every time set a side) and EC has been set side for 3 turns ,
Where would the seven spirits end up? (stuck in set side area or in opponent's territory?) and does the EC that was set aside go back to face value?
2 .Are captured heroes ( from another player) considered permanently owning or have control of them?
3. If a player has 5 cards in his territory that did not originate from his deck and then they are shuffled or discarded do those cards go back to the deck or discard pile they originated from?
Even if some of the cards were Hopper LS and 2 hero characters converted by Ashpenaz?
Ashpenaz SA: Convert a captured human hero in your territory to a crimson EC, You control the character
4. If a hero already has gained Gathering of angels (may band to any hero until discarded) and then gets set a side again , do they reset to face value because they are taken out of play?
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Questions mostly about set aside areas and ownership of cards.
1. If I decide to exchange an EC in an opponent's territory with Seven wicked spirits SA: you may interrupt all Fortresses and exchange this EC with any other EC in play or set-aside area
and want to target an EC that is in an opponent's set aside area by Molech worship (gains 1/1 for every time set a side) and EC has been set side for 3 turns ,
Where would the seven spirits end up? (stuck in set side area or in opponent's territory?) and does the EC that was set aside go back to face value?
SWS would go to their set aside area and could be withdrawn at their next prep phase. I believe the EC SWS exchanged for would be increased by 3/3 because the gain isn't specified as being applied upon return.
2 .Are captured heroes ( from another player) considered permanently owning or have control of them?
Just control. Ownership belongs to the person who owns the card.
3. If a player has 5 cards in his territory that did not originate from his deck and then they are shuffled or discarded do those cards go back to the deck or discard pile they originated from?
Any card sent to draw or discard pile goes to its owner's pile regardless of where it was when the ability was played.
Even if some of the cards were Hopper LS and 2 hero characters converted by Ashpenaz?
Ashpenaz SA: Convert a captured human hero in your territory to a crimson EC, You control the character
4. If a hero already has gained Gathering of angels (may band to any hero until discarded) and then gets set a side again , do they reset to face value because they are taken out of play?
No. The ability stays until they are sent to hand, deck or discard in the case of "until discard" abilities. Simply being removed form play isn't a condition for the loss of ability unless specified.
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sorry for question #2 I meant to say permanently controlling
So do captured heroes from an opponent count as permanently controlling those characters?
As for #4
If a card states "until discarded" treat them as until this character is put in draw pile , discard pile or put back in hand?
I have probably forgot , but where in the REG or rules that it says cards reset to face value when they are in the discard pile , draw pile or put back in hand?
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For the SWS exchange to set-aside question, I agree that they would be exchanged and that the original EC there would have the increase, but specifically because Molech Worship says it gains that 1/1 every upkeep, not upon return; essentially, it already had that 3/3.
Agree with Praeceps' post all-around.
On 'permanent' control and control: You "control" a card when it is on your side of the battle, in your territory/set-aside/LoR/etc, as well as those cards in your hand/deck/discard. Non-permanent control means that you are temporarily using it on your side of the battle, but it will revert to another player's control after that battle; everything else is permanent control (but not necessarily ownership, like Praeceps said).
So yes, you control captured characters.
sorry for question #2 I meant to say permanently controlling
So do captured heroes from an opponent count as permanently controlling those characters?
As for #4
If a card states "until discarded" treat them as until this character is put in draw pile , discard pile or put back in hand?
I have probably forgot , but where in the REG or rules that it says cards reset to face value when they are in the discard pile , draw pile or put back in hand?
Yes, they have to go to one of those locations to reset. It is different than with cards that say "while in play", because if they just leave play (by going to set-aside, for example), they lose the ability; also different than "while in territory", because if they leave that territory (entering battle or swapping territories), they lose the ability.
On the rules, there are parts that mention it under return to hand, topdeck, and underdeck, but I can't find a hard and fast 'rule' in the REG. It is a rule, rest assured ;)
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5. if abilities that are completed in a prior phase are CBN , what about image of Jealousy being placed on a fortress? Is the reason why it may not be CBN is because the SA on it has not yet completed? or is it another reason?
5. Good question. The only part that has completed is the Place ability, and that is CBN. The rest of the ability is ongoing and continuous, and it does not "complete" in a previous phase. So, you can negate Image's ongoing component in later phases, but you cannot negate the Place.
So if Image of jealousy, Holy Grail, Siege works (Foof) and Unholy writ have instant abilities (Like convert, negate and capture)
1.how can you tell if a SA (if it is not considered ongoing according the REG) on a card has a continuous nature to it or is not considered completed?
(Not including any SA on enhancements and characters that can only be played during the battle phase.)
Would a SA on a card have a continuous and not completed nature if the effect on it can last for more than 1 phase?
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1.how can you tell if a SA (if it is not considered ongoing according the REG) on a card has a continuous nature to it or is not considered completed?
Well, in the REG (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/downloads/REG_PDF_v1.0.2.pdf), you will find abilities listed by whether they are ongoing or instant. But really, it boils down to this:
"Has the ability done something that it is no longer doing?" If the answer is yes, then it is instant. If the answer is no, then it is ongoing.
So, Image of Jealousy (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Image_of_Jealousy_(TP)) has two parts, one of which places it on a card, and the other part negates that card. You can see in the REG that the first is instant and the other ongoing, but you can also ask the question above.
When it is played, the card places itself on another card. So, once that is done, does it keep on doing that thing? No, because it is already placed, it doesn't keep placing itself, it's already there. Therefore, that component is instant.
Now, once played, the card negates another card. So, after played, does it keep doing that part? Yes, because that negate will continue and continue until Image leaves play or is otherwise negated. Therefore, that component is ongoing.
There are some tricky cases; for example, once he has been "triggered," Simon the Zealot (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Simon_the_Zealot_(Di))'s protection is CBN in a following phase, even though protection is ongoing. The reason for this is that characters only activate when placed in battle, whereas almost every other kind of card is 'constantly activating' when it has an ongoing ability (this is why you can have a card 'wink out' during one phase if negated, but then turn back on in the next). So, by definition, a character's ability that is a "while in play" is always CBN starting in the phase after the phase in which it was activated, because it actually did complete.
Just remember that this is only really for characters that this exception to the rule exists, and only because of the way their abilities activate. For all other cards, just follow the REG and ask the question as above.
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The reason for this is that characters only activate when placed in battle, whereas almost every other kind of card is 'constantly activating' when it has an ongoing ability (this is why you can have a card 'wink out' during one phase if negated, but then turn back on in the next).
Question about the bolded section.
If a LS, like say the shuffler or the NT only LS, are negated during the battle, say by Isaiah's call, do their abilities reactivate once the battle phase is over or would they need to hit deck/discard/hand before they would reactivate?
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If a LS, like say the shuffler or the NT only LS, are negated during the battle, say by Isaiah's call, do their abilities reactivate once the battle phase is over or would they need to hit deck/discard/hand before they would reactivate?
They reactivate, as LS are 'continually activating', for a lack of a better term, and the negate only lasts until the end of phase. The ongoing abilities turn back on once the negate is not affecting them any longer.
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and the negate only lasts until the end of phase.
Actually, the negate only lasts while Isaiah is in battle, based on the wording of Isaiah's Call.
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and the negate only lasts until the end of phase.
Actually, the negate only lasts while Isaiah is in battle, based on the wording of Isaiah's Call.
Yes, you are correct, sorry for the slightly incorrect info everyone ;) In general, negates would last until the end of phase and the Lost Soul would reactivate the next phase. There, better ;D
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1. If any card that says " On or Upon Activation" like Covenant I am Holy (SA: Holder may discard a good card from hand to make an opponent discard an evil card from hand.)
Does this mean , right at the moment you activate the SA on the card (during prep phase), you must choose to use it or not at the very moment , and if you choose not to use it , you can not use it's SA until the next prep phase of the player who owns it?
2. For I am Holy and I am Grace (SA Upon activation you may discard a good card from hand to discard an evil enhancement in play.)
can you discard more than 1 good card in your hand to discard more than 1 evil card? is there a limit?
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1. That is correct. You use it or lose it.
2. You can only use it once. The limit is due to the "on activation" aspect. It only triggers when activated so it can only be used that one time (until your next turn).
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1. If a hero ignores an EC but the EC is immune to the Hero would the EC still get unlimited initiative , but when the battle ends (assuming the ignore was never negated) do they both go back and no LS is rescued?
2. What would happen if a hero and EC were both ignoring each other?
3. Can any card like Plague of frogs: Regardless of immunity return an EC in play to owner's draw pile.
Target an EC in battle that is either ignoring or protected (even if the protect or ignore is CBN) from the hero using the enhancement? or is this ability specific?
4. Also if a good enhancement states "Regardless of Protection discard an EC" or something similar , could it target an EC in battle that ignoring or immune to the hero who used it?
(thought of these 2 questions above because I was thinking about the nature of ignore and protect etc)
5. Heard something about if an EC has 2 brigades (like The Goat with Horn black /Orange) and a hero ignores one of them (Black) , the EC is ignored outright.
Is this still true? and if so is this because the EC is still of that brigade?
5.1 If that is the case , then could the EC play orange enhancements to affect hero normally?
6. In a 3 player game , if Player 1 played Falling Away Part of SA: Select any Redeemed Soul and return card to your LOB.
and targeted a Redeemed Soul that was never owned by Player 1 which LOB does the LS go to? Would the LS go back to whoever originally owned it?
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1. If the EC was immune first, then the only portion of the ignore that would function is the immunity portion (since the EC is immune to the other parts). The battle would result in a mutual immunity situation with initiative passing based on who played the last card (since neither character is dying).
2. I believe that the first ignore would take precedence for the battle winning aspect of the battle, and the characters would be mutually immune to each other (much like #1).
3. Regardless of immunity does not work against protection (though regardless of protection does) and I don't believe it works against ignore either (since ignore is technically a separate ability from immune).
4. No. "Regardless of <something>" abilities only get around that <something>, not any other abilities. Protect, ignore, and immune are all separate and unique abilities (though portions of ignore resemble immune).
5. Yes that's true. It's because all brigades a card has are innately part of it and can't be separated. Goat with Horn is a black and orange evil character so if you ignore black you ignore Goat regardless of the fact that he's also orange.
5.1. No, cards played on ignored/immune characters are also covered under the ignore/immune regardless of what brigade they are.
6. Falling Away explicitly says that you place the card in your Land of Bondage. It doesn't matter who owns it or which Land of Redemption it was in, it always goes to your LoB. Cards can switch control very easily in Redemption and there's no restriction that cards in your territory must be owned by you.
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3. Regardless of immunity does not work against protection (though regardless of protection does) and I don't believe it works against ignore either (since ignore is technically a separate ability from immune).
6. Falling Away explicitly says that you place the card in your Land of Bondage. It doesn't matter who owns it or which Land of Redemption it was in, it always goes to your LoB. Cards can switch control very easily in Redemption and there's no restriction that cards in your territory must be owned by you.
3. Other than the name of the ability is there any functional difference between being protected from something and being immune to something?
6. Only cards in your deck and discard have to be owned be you, yes?
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What if a player has the tabernacle fortress and The bronze Laver artifact in it face up (which has a "Upon activation ability" and another artifact face up in their artifact pile.
1. Can you deactivate artifacts in a temple fortress? (if so do they stay in the fortress?)
2. By their next prep phase can they activate the SA on both artifacts?
3. If not , then does the player have to decide which one artifact he will use that turn and must put the other artifact face down they are not using for the turn?
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1. Yes, you can deactivate artifacts in other locations as normal. Inactive (face-down) artifacts return to the artifact pile.
2. If you have locations other than the artifact pile that you can legally place artifacts, then you can have them all active at once, yes, even if more than one has an "on activation" ability.
3. <n/a>
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3. Other than the name of the ability is there any functional difference between being protected from something and being immune to something?
Nope. Same thing. Someday, I'd like to see that change, but that's a personal preference ;)
6. Only cards in your deck and discard have to be owned be you, yes?
Cards go to their owner's deck or discard if returned or sent to one of those locations.
Agree with browarod's points.
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3. Other than the name of the ability is there any functional difference between being protected from something and being immune to something?
Nope. Same thing. Someday, I'd like to see that change, but that's a personal preference ;)
Protect used to be different before they changed it with the Thad ruling. It didn't used to protect from numbers.
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sed to be different before they changed it with the Thad ruling. It didn't used to protect from numbers.
It did in some places ;)
The "Thad ruling" you refer to wasn't so much of a change, it was more of a clarification on an issue that was being ruled differently by different hosts in different parts of the country.
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I could have sworn that protect used to just be in relation to special abilities (and that the rules even specified that). I mean, otherwise what's the point of creating it if it's just the same as immune? lol
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I could have sworn that protect used to just be in relation to special abilities (and that the rules even specified that). I mean, otherwise what's the point of creating it if it's just the same as immune? lol
Protect hasn't applied to just SAs ever since Priests, when it was ruled that Crown of Thorns could result in a bunch of 1/0 Sadducees/Pharisees protected by HP Palace remaining in play. It was almost always used exclusively with special abilities (and the discard game rule) until Thad came out, as it made clear what it was protecting from (protect from capture, protect from discard, etc.).
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I could have sworn that protect used to just be in relation to special abilities (and that the rules even specified that). I mean, otherwise what's the point of creating it if it's just the same as immune? lol
Protect hasn't applied to just SAs ever since Priests, when it was ruled that Crown of Thorns could result in a bunch of 1/0 Sadducees/Pharisees protected by HP Palace remaining in play. It was almost always used exclusively with special abilities (and the discard game rule) until Thad came out, as it made clear what it was protecting from (protect from capture, protect from discard, etc.).
1. If that is the case , then is it true that Ram's horn (priests) part of it's SA says "discard this card" or Benjamin "otherwise discard Benjamin after battle and cards like Hunger , ignorance and Plagued with diseases (that would decrease a character to toughness 0) are considered "discard special abilities?"
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Ram's Horn and Benjamin have discard abilities, yes. Hunger and other decrease abilities are NOT discard abilities, all they do is decrease. A character being discarded from having 0 or less toughness is a game rule not a special ability. The difference is that if something protects from "discard abilities" then it does NOT protect from the game rule and the character can still be discarded from 0 toughness. If something protects from "discard" (like High Priest's Palace) then it protects from special abilities AND game rules.
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Ram's Horn and Benjamin have discard abilities, yes. Hunger and other decrease abilities are NOT discard abilities, all they do is decrease. A character being discarded from having 0 or less toughness is a game rule not a special ability. The difference is that if something protects from "discard abilities" then it does NOT protect from the game rule and the character can still be discarded from 0 toughness. If something protects from "discard" (like High Priest's Palace) then it protects from special abilities AND game rules.
And from being discarded when losing by the numbers, i.e. the new Joseph
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Ram's Horn and Benjamin have discard abilities, yes. Hunger and other decrease abilities are NOT discard abilities, all they do is decrease. A character being discarded from having 0 or less toughness is a game rule not a special ability. The difference is that if something protects from "discard abilities" then it does NOT protect from the game rule and the character can still be discarded from 0 toughness. If something protects from "discard" (like High Priest's Palace) then it protects from special abilities AND game rules.
And from being discarded when losing by the numbers, i.e. the new Joseph
That is also a game rule so it falls under the same category as 0 toughness. :P
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1.If any player thinks about the word "Negate" should they interpret it as "Interrupt and prevent combined'?
1.2 How would I explain to someone that a CBP ability also can not be targeted by any negate that is already affecting the battle? (even though negate maybe looked at as "interrupt and prevent combined?)
2.
Mission Deviation SA: If opponent plays more than one additional enhancement this battle , all LS cards are protected from being rescued by Heroes this turn.
So the protect SA will only take effect if one more good enhancement is played after Mission Deviation was played?
Example: If a hero in battle has already 2 enhancements and then EC plays Mission Deviation. In this example will the protect SA only take effect at the moment the hero plays a 3rd enhancement?
3. Is it true that even if a search or exchange ability has failed , you still must shuffle your entire deck?
4. What does , abilities cannot insert themselves into other abilities mean?
What would be a good example of this?
5. Plague of Blood says: Discard all (Kot W) sites in play. All Evil characters from all Kot W sites are returned to their owner's territory.
Do you return any Evil characters that were in the Kot W or do you follow the "contents follow their hosts" rule?
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1. and 1.2 The easiest way to think about negate/interrupt/prevent and their associated "cannot be"s is as follows:
-A prevent stops an ability before it happens. A "cannot be prevented" ability cannot be stopped before it happens.
-An interrupt ability temporarily stops an ability after it happens. A "cannot be interrupted" ability cannot be stopped after it happens.
-A negate stops abilities played before it and, if it's ongoing, prevents abilities after it. A "cannot be negated" ability cannot be stopped.
2. Mission Deviation says "more than one additional" meaning the Hero can play one additional enhancement safely. If they play 2 more then the lost souls become protected.
3. Anytime you search your deck (whether due to a search or exchange) the desk must then be shuffled, regardless of whether or not you find what you're looking for.
4. It means that abilities must complete before other abilities can insert themselves. The easiest example is if your opponent puts a banding Hero into battle. You must let the Hero band (if they choose to) before you are allowed to play Christian Martyr to discard the Hero.
5. Default conditions, such as "contents follow their hosts," exist to tell you what happens if the card does not specify what to do. In this case, since Plague of Blood specifies what to do with the contents, that overrides the default condition and the Evil Characters return to territory.
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just 3 quick questions:
1. the card Dragon Raid gives site access right? (wanted to double check just to make sure)
2. If the Lost Souls (3 liner) is fallen away does the opponent have to rescue it twice again?
3. Can the new Sog card negate the SA on the Lost Souls card?
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1. If you place Dragon Raid into battle with your Hero it grants them access to Sites of all brigades, yes.
2. No, it returns to your Land of Bondage with 1 "rescue" still counting on it. The opponent would only have to rescue it once for both to count again.
3. No. Both versions of the Lost Souls cards have been errata'd to make their special abilities actually identifiers (which are not negatable).
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3. No. Both versions of the Lost Souls cards have been errata'd to make their special abilities actually identifiers (which are not negatable).
I thought that was changed to make them a CBN ability to keep people from having 7 of them in one 50 card deck
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3. No. Both versions of the Lost Souls cards have been errata'd to make their special abilities actually identifiers (which are not negatable).
I thought that was changed to make them a CBN ability to keep people from having 7 of them in one 50 card deck
This is the correct version of the errata (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/official-errata/errata-reworded-special-abilities/msg471510/#msg471510), though the identifier errata did exist for awhile (though it caused problems with the "no SA LS" rules, as mentioned).
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You're right, I was one errata behind. It's a good thing he hasn't asked about A New Beginning because that would REALLY get hairy. :P
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You're right, I was one errata behind. It's a good thing he hasn't asked about A New Beginning because that would REALLY get hairy. :P
SHHHHHHHHHH! We don't talk about that!
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Is this still true?
1. If a SA is prevented , and the prevent is later negated , then you can select a target for the ability. It never targeted in the first place , so there is no change in targets.
1.1 So if Moses prevented 3 evil enhancements in battle and then Moses SA got negated , can the 3 evil enhancements choose a target?
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Is this still true?
1. If a SA is prevented , and the prevent is later negated , then you can select a target for the ability. It never targeted in the first place , so there is no change in targets.
1.1 So if Moses prevented 3 evil enhancements in battle and then Moses SA got negated , can the 3 evil enhancements choose a target?
Being debated, not sure what answer to give you. (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/wives'-protection/50/)
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If a players hand is protected from opponents cards like (Simon the Zealot)
and the other player has Judges seat and wants to target an EC in that players territory can the player with Simon the Zealot do the instead ability?
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They cannot. You can be protected from doing an instead ability, since the source of that instead is still your opponent's card.
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Just to clarify, you can do the instead ability if you discard a card from your territory but as Redoubter said, you can't discard from hand. This is a common thing people do with The Entrapping Pharisees to capture opponents' heroes without them being able to instead it since StZ is protecting their hand.
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So if Simon the Zealot protects your hand and deck from opponents.
Then player with Simon the Zealot , can not do any instead ability used by the other opponent including sinning hand , judge's seat , the rabsaris attacks ( opponent may discard top 5 cards instead) and other cards that say instead?
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So if Simon the Zealot protects your hand and deck from opponents.
Then player with Simon the Zealot , can not do any instead ability used by the other opponent including sinning hand , judge's seat , the rabsaris attacks ( opponent may discard top 5 cards instead) and other cards that say instead?
Nothing in any opponent's ability can affect the protected cards, even instead abilities, correct. It doesn't matter if it is an instead, it is still an ability (which is coming from an opponent in these cases, for the determination of protection).
One of my goals in Redemption is to use Primary Objective against a protected-from-discard hand...that would make me so happy.
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1. Does place on cards like Image of Jealousy and siegeworks (FooF) can only place on fortresses that are in play and not in set a side areas?
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Unless it specifies otherwise place defaults to in-play, so, yes, you would not be able place siegeworks on chamber/fishing boat.
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To determine where an ability defaults to, you can always check the ability in the REG (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/downloads/REG_PDF_v1.0.2.pdf). If it does not specify otherwise, an ability always defaults to play.