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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: JDS on August 09, 2010, 01:43:13 PM

Title: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: JDS on August 09, 2010, 01:43:13 PM
Based on the Magicians in TexP, I believe it is reasonable for “Magicians” to be defined as users of demonic powers. That would be:

Abihu*
Astrologers
Ashpenaz**
Balaam
Chaldeans
Damsel with Spirits of Divination
Elymas (Bar-Jesus) the Sorcerer
Enchanter
Jambres***
Jannes***
Nadab*
Laban
Manasseh****
Pharaoh’s Magicians
Prophets of Baal
Prophets of Samaria
Simon the Magician
The False Prophet
User of Curious Arts
Witch of Endor
Workers with Familiar Spirits
Wizards

****Manasseh - "He made his son pass through the fire, practiced witchcraft and used divination, and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD provoking Him to anger." - II Kings 21:6, NASB

*** Jambres & Jannes – historically Magicians, but only referenced once in the Bible: “Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.” – II Timothy 3:8, NASB

**  Ashpenaz – historically a Chaldean, but only referenced once in the Bible: “Then the king ordered Ashpenaz, the chief of his officials, to bring in some of the sons of Israel, including some of the royal family and of the nobles, youths in whom was no defect, who were good-looking, showing intelligence in every branch of wisdom, endowed with understanding and discerning knowledge, and who had ability for serving in the king’s court; and he ordered him to teach them the literature and language of the Chaldeans.” - Daniel 1:3-4, NASB

*Abihu & Nadab - offered up strange fire

The following characters are listed in the REG as Magicians, but maybe they shouldn't be:

The Magi - I don’t think any heroes should be considered Magicians or benefit from Magic Charms, because any of their “powers” came from God. Even if a character was involved with demonic powers in the past, I don’t think that should be reflected in the identifier of their hero representation.
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Magician Classification)
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 09, 2010, 02:59:01 PM
They ought to be, are they not?
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Magician Classification)
Post by: Alex_Olijar on August 09, 2010, 03:06:55 PM
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=17498.0 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=17498.0)

Your other topic says no to that (see last two posts).
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: JSB23 on August 09, 2010, 06:09:13 PM
So the Magi are magicians, interesting
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: Alex_Olijar on August 09, 2010, 06:10:08 PM
No, they aren't. We have had that discussion before, and we all know the REG is outdated.
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: Professoralstad on August 09, 2010, 06:23:19 PM
Laban should be on that list as well:

Quote from: Genesis 30:27, NIV
27 But Laban said to him, "If I have found favor in your eyes, please stay. I have learned by divination that the LORD has blessed me because of you."
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: drb1200 on August 09, 2010, 06:53:49 PM
Laban should be on that list as well:

Quote from: Genesis 30:27, NIV
27 But Laban said to him, "If I have found favor in your eyes, please stay. I have learned by divination that the LORD has blessed me because of you."
That doesn't make him a magician any more than King Saul.
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: Gabe on August 09, 2010, 07:37:55 PM
Laban practiced divination and is considered a magician for Redemption purposes.  You've heard it from two elders now.  Consider it official.

I don't see anything in the passage quoted that I find remotely convincing for Ashpenaz to be considered a magician.
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 09, 2010, 08:18:04 PM
No, they aren't. We have had that discussion before, and we all know the REG is outdated.

Speaking of which... will REG 2.0 be released for nats?
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: Professoralstad on August 09, 2010, 08:56:06 PM
No, they aren't. We have had that discussion before, and we all know the REG is outdated.

Speaking of which... will REG 2.0 be released for nats?

Yes. Which Nats, however, is uncertain. I can't speak for Tim, but I'm fairly certain it won't be Nats 2010.

That doesn't make him a magician any more than King Saul.

Where did King Saul practice divination? He sought out a witch, but that's different than being one.
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on August 09, 2010, 09:03:23 PM
I disagree with ProfAlstad.

Quote from: Tim Maly
The new REG, which will be released in never, ....
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: Bryon on August 09, 2010, 09:19:16 PM
**  Ashpenaz - NOT a magician, as far as I can tell.

*Abihu & Nadab - NOT magicians, as far as I can tell.

I agree with the rest of your post/list, except that you should add Laban.  :)
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: YourMathTeacher on August 09, 2010, 09:25:10 PM
We're changing the list a few days before the National Tournament?
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: Bryon on August 09, 2010, 09:33:37 PM
Is there a list somewhere?  I have ruled the guys above as magicians at tournaments when asked.  None of this is new, as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: Alex_Olijar on August 09, 2010, 09:44:03 PM
The list above is a quote from Frisian with two additions (Workers with Familiar Spirits and Manasseh) that you added the post below his on the topic I linked to in my last post. The asterisked names are JDS' debated Magicians.

So, yeah, most of us have been under the impression there is a list.
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: JDS on August 10, 2010, 03:04:28 AM
I guess I have to agree with Balaam and Laban because *edited by roses*

New list based on Bryon and Gabe's response:

Astrologers
Balaam
Chaldeans
Damsel with Spirits of Divination
Elymas (Bar-Jesus) the Sorcerer
Enchanter
Jambres
Jannes
Laban
Manasseh
Pharaoh’s Magicians
Prophets of Baal
Prophets of Samaria
Simon the Magician
The False Prophet
User of Curious Arts
Witch of Endor
Workers with Familiar Spirits
Wizards
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: CactusRob on August 10, 2010, 07:50:39 AM
New list based on Bryon and Gabe's response:

Astrologers
Balaam
Chaldeans
Damsel with Spirits of Divination
Elymas (Bar-Jesus) the Sorcerer
Enchanter
Jambres
Jannes
Laban
Manasseh
Pharaoh’s Magicians
Prophets of Baal
Prophets of Samaria
Simon the Magician
The False Prophet
User of Curious Arts
Witch of Endor
Workers with Familiar Spirits
Wizards
Okay by me.
Title: Re: Question Before Nationals (Comprehensive Magicians List)
Post by: Professoralstad on August 10, 2010, 10:11:58 AM
Well, there you have it folks. A Rob-approved list for all to see.

Now, to break it down by brigde:

Black
-Damsel with Spirit of Divination (Prophets)
-Mansseh
-Prophets of Samaria
-Simon the Magician
Brown
-Enchanter (Prophets)
Crimson
-Astrologers (TexP)
-Prophets of Baal
Gold
-Astrologers (Prophets)
-Jambres
-Jannes
-Pharaoh's Magicians
-Users of Curious Arts (Prophets)
Gray
-Balaam
-Chaldeans
-Elymas (Bar-Jesus) the Sorcerer
-Laban
-The False Prophet
Orange
-Damsel with Spirits of Divination (TexP)
Pale Green
-Astrologers (TexP)
-Damsel with Spirits of Divination (TexP)
-Enchanter (TexP)
-User of Curious Arts (TexP)
-Witch of Endor
-Workers with Familiar Spirits
-Wizards

Just in case anyone is interested...



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