Author Topic: Protection of Angels (Read 4039 times)

Korunks · « **on:** December 01, 2009, 08:08:55 PM »

Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and protect all Heroes in play and set aside areas from evil cards until end of turn. • Identifiers: OT, Involves Music • Verse: Psalms 91:11 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Common)

Ok ok ok I know we have had this discussion probably at least 4 times now, but there is never been any closure on the threads that I have found in the search. IS it officially true that Protection of Angels does NOT protect from the numbers in battle? I will need to be making rulings on this card soon and need to know what is correct.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2009, 08:14:43 PM »

It is officially true. PoA does NOT protect from numbers in battle.

Korunks · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2009, 08:24:50 PM »

thank you

Gabe · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2009, 11:37:02 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on December 01, 2009, 08:14:43 PM

It is officially true. PoA does NOT protect from numbers in battle.

Can you point me to where that was officially answered? Last time I knew it DID protect from numbers except when Tim Maly plays it.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2009, 11:37:41 PM »

Ugh, I could have sworn that was what we decided. Let me check.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2009, 11:44:23 PM »

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=16581.90

This is the last thread we had on the matter, and to me it seems that Tim and Bryon both say that PoA doesn't protect from numbers. (I didn't read all 9 pages just the first and last couple) I think Schaef feels that way too though.

EDIT: I lied, Here is the way I see it

Tim, Bryon, and Mike all say it doesn't protect from the numbers

Schaef, and You (Gabe) Disagree

Crustpope, YMT, and Underwood are all flip-floping trying to understand whats going on, but seem to be more on the side of you and Schaef.

Gabe · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2009, 12:03:13 AM »

I can't seem to find Bryon's post in the 8 pages. Maybe I'm overlooking it.

Tim says it doesn't work.

Mike says it doesn't work for reasons that don't completely add up since that logic leads to HPP not protecting Sadducees from Crown of Thorns which has worked since Priests (and also disagrees with Tim on that point).

Schaef says it works.

Those are the only "official" comments I saw. Seems to me that there is no official conclusion.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2009, 12:04:34 AM »

Actually, Tim explains the Sadducess thing quite well on the last page, ~~I think Bryon posted on page 3.~~
Nope you're right, Bryon doesn't post, I must have confused him and mike for a moment

Korunks · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2009, 07:03:01 AM »

Well then lets open this can of worms again and see if we can get Bryon to stop by and tell us how it works, I really am not leaning either way I just want an answer.

SirNobody · « **Reply #9 on:** December 02, 2009, 10:22:48 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: Korunks on December 02, 2009, 07:03:01 AM

Well then lets open this can of worms again and see if we can get Bryon to stop by and tell us how it works, I really am not leaning either way I just want an answer.

"Protect allows cards to be unaffected by specified special abilities" - Current REG

"Protect: Protect allows cards to be unaffected by specified special abilities." - Rulebook Glossary of Terms

"Protection from cards only protects from being targeted by the special abilities of those cards" - New REG

The definition of protect means that you can't be protected from the strength and toughness on cards. There is no can of worms here to open, all of the evidence is in agreement, Protection of Angels does not protect you from losing the battle by the numbers.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

STAMP · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2009, 10:53:34 AM »

So based on that, even though PoA specifies "evil cards" I am now certain that PoA does NOT protect against the artwork, scripture, and colored border, too.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #11 on:** December 02, 2009, 11:08:25 AM »

Correct, If you are not protected from Mocking Soldiers giant sword, you can get your head cut off.

SirNobody · « **Reply #12 on:** December 02, 2009, 11:28:52 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on December 02, 2009, 11:08:25 AM

Correct, If you are not protected from Mocking Soldiers giant sword, you can get your head cut off.

Unless, of course, you are using Balaam's Donkey Speaks.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2009, 11:30:16 AM »

Redemption is based on the KJV. You mean Balaam's hiney Speaketh.

SirNobody · « **Reply #14 on:** December 02, 2009, 11:36:22 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 02, 2009, 11:30:16 AM

Redemption is based on the KJV. You mean Balaam's hiney Speaketh.

I mean this.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #15 on:** August 30, 2010, 01:31:32 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on December 02, 2009, 10:22:48 AM

Hey,

Quote from: Korunks on December 02, 2009, 07:03:01 AM
Well then lets open this can of worms again and see if we can get Bryon to stop by and tell us how it works, I really am not leaning either way I just want an answer.

"Protect allows cards to be unaffected by specified special abilities" - Current REG

"Protect: Protect allows cards to be unaffected by specified special abilities." - Rulebook Glossary of Terms

"Protection from cards only protects from being targeted by the special abilities of those cards" - New REG

The definition of protect means that you can't be protected from the strength and toughness on cards. There is no can of worms here to open, all of the evidence is in agreement, Protection of Angels does not protect you from losing the battle by the numbers.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

With the release of a set mostly composed of protect abilities, i feel this thread deserves to be reposted. ARISE!

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #16 on:** August 30, 2010, 07:02:12 PM »

I support this necro

Korunks · « **Reply #17 on:** August 31, 2010, 09:52:16 AM »

I do as well, since it is my thread

. Can we get an updated definition of Protect? Pretty please?

TheJaylor · « **Reply #18 on:** August 31, 2010, 09:59:08 AM »

i believe Tim just gave one but i disagree because the Evil Card is "affecting" the hero(es) in battle so it should be protected. if an EC is "killing" you by the numbers and you play PoA you are protected from their numbers that are killing you.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #19 on:** August 31, 2010, 10:10:45 AM »

thats what im saying- no you are not. b/c it only protects you from special abilities. its not immune. its protect. different.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #20 on:** August 31, 2010, 10:14:31 AM »

the special ability says they are protected from Evil Cards and the abilities on Evil Cards as well.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #21 on:** August 31, 2010, 03:17:26 PM »

Hey, i agree with you- Im just going by what ive been told.

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #22 on:** August 31, 2010, 04:09:28 PM »

the definition of protect in the game of redemption only stops special ablilites. it doesn't matter if PoA says evil cards, protect in redemption only stops abilities. protect in the real world has a different definition that protect in redemption, and it seems people are trying to impose the real world definition onto this situation

STAMP · « **Reply #23 on:** August 31, 2010, 04:21:05 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on December 02, 2009, 10:53:34 AM

So based on that, even though PoA specifies "evil cards" I am now certain that PoA does NOT protect against the artwork, scripture, and colored border, too.

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on December 02, 2009, 11:08:25 AM

Correct, If you are not protected from Mocking Soldiers giant sword, you can get your head cut off.

And unless I'm using sleeves I gather my heroes are not protected from the raspberry jelly on the RLK's evil card.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #24 on:** August 31, 2010, 04:32:34 PM »

I fail to see why that would be problematic - Raspberry jelly is amazing.

Korunks · « **Reply #25 on:** November 10, 2010, 12:14:09 PM »

Necroposting FTW. Can we please get a concrete answer on this? Why can enoch and job survive being discarded by the numbers, but Protection of angels does not save from discard by the numbers. I thought we had hashed this out exhaustively before but I cannot find that thread, So I will ressurect mine. Discuss

.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #26 on:** November 10, 2010, 12:44:19 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on November 10, 2010, 12:14:09 PM

Necroposting FTW. Can we please get a concrete answer on this? Why can enoch and job survive being discarded by the numbers, but Protection of angels does not save from discard by the numbers. I thought we had hashed this out exhaustively before but I cannot find that thread, So I will ressurect mine. Discuss .

To avoid unneeded confusion, the thread that inspired him to necropost is here: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=24376.0

STAMP · « **Reply #27 on:** November 10, 2010, 06:32:18 PM »

I think we all got sidetracked daydreaming about raspberry jelly.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #28 on:** November 10, 2010, 07:21:04 PM »

So if Tim's definition is correct (which I see no reason why it shouldn't be unless someone else posts) Thaddeus doesn't protect from evil enhancements played on evil characters because he doesn't say anything about protecting from evil enhancements, right?

Master_Chi · « **Reply #29 on:** November 11, 2010, 06:35:21 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on November 10, 2010, 06:32:18 PM

I think we all got sidetracked daydreaming about raspberry jelly.

I thought this thread was about Raspberry-filled jelly donuts. There is no argument that supports jelly-filled donuts not being protected from raspberries.

The M · « **Reply #30 on:** November 11, 2010, 08:09:28 PM »

But protect protects from special abilities.
Numbers mean nothing.
If you are in a fight with 10 ninjas against you, (numbers)
but you are Jackie Chan (protect)
and they throw ~~shurikens~~ ~~shoyrookens~~ shurikens at you (special ability)
but you dodge them (protect ability working)
but they kill you with their mad skillz, (numbers)
you are still dead. (

)

Korunks · « **Reply #31 on:** November 15, 2010, 09:06:32 AM »

Bumped for an elder comment. Can an elder please explain this so it can go away

SomeKittens · « **Reply #32 on:** November 15, 2010, 10:46:56 AM »

Well, from what Tim said, the REG's pretty clear. Hey, we even got a ruling from the new one!

Korunks · « **Reply #33 on:** November 15, 2010, 11:12:08 AM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on November 15, 2010, 10:46:56 AM

Well, from what Tim said, the REG's pretty clear. Hey, we even got a ruling from the new one!

That comment from Tim came before my necro and does not answer the current question about Protection of Angels.

Tim says protection of Angels does not protect against discard by the numbers, but enoch and Job are both protected from discard by the numbers as a result of their abilities. Why is that? What in the wording of their abilities makes them behave different? And if that is the reason why they play different how come? That has yet to be resolved. We have an apparent contradiction in the way protection works. I know I will be seeing this kind of stuff a lot in my near future as a host and I need some context for why they work different(if they are supposed too) so I can make educated rulings on protection in general in the future.

News:

Author Topic: Protection of Angels (Read 4039 times)

Lamborghini_diablo