Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: browarod on May 16, 2011, 12:41:16 PM
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Does a Pigs LS drawn via an interrupt/draw/play enhancement prevent draw abilities on enhancements that the interrupt/draw/play enhancement interrupted?
Example: My opponent plays Reach followed by a drawn AoC (not Promo) to kill all my ECs. If I play Philly Chariot/Horses or Swift Horses or Dream and one of the cards I draw is the Pigs LS, will that effectively undo the draw from Reach (and, indirectly, the playing of AoC)?
Luke 15_15-16 (Di)
Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Prevent all draw abilities, except on Heroes.
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No. Pigs LS is a prevent, so it doesn't affect any drawing that occurs before/during it coming out. Also, abilities cannot be inserted between the completion of other abilities, so if you drew the LS with PC&H, and then decided to play the next enhancement which was a draw card, the LS wouldn't stop that either, since the LS's ability can't activate unti PC&H is done, PC&H isn't done until all resultant cards are played.
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Since the interrupt ability has stopped interrupting by the time PC&H (and the card played with its play ability) completes, is that why Pigs doesn't prevent those draws?
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Since the interrupt ability has stopped interrupting by the time PC&H (and the card played with its play ability) completes, is that why Pigs doesn't prevent those draws?
No. Pigs doesn't prevent those draws because you can't prevent something that has already happened. By the time Pigs activates to start preventing drawing, all the drawing on those cards has been completed, since Pigs can't activate until all currently resolving abilities resolve. Similarly, if you were to play a draw/play next enhancement, draw the revealer, then play a card that discards the top card of opponent's deck, the discard happens first, then the revealer activates and reveals two.
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So the answer to my second question is actually yes, then. lol
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So the answer to my second question is actually yes, then. lol
Ah, I see what you were really asking...Reach isn't negated in your situation, since PC&H only interrupts AoC (the last enhancement). However, if you actually did interrupt Reach and drew the Pigs LS, that would effectively be like playing an interrupt and prevent enhancement, and the draw of Reach would be negated.
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Why can the lost soul insert its ability before reach activates again? Wouldn't they both try to activate after the horse is finished and therefore activate simoutaneously? If they activate simoutaneously then I would thing that the reach wouldn't be prevented.
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Why can the lost soul insert its ability before reach activates again? Wouldn't they both try to activate after the horse is finished and therefore activate simoutaneously? If they activate simoutaneously then I would thing that the reach wouldn't be prevented.
Reach isn't being interrupted, only AoC is.
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Why can the lost soul insert its ability before reach activates again? Wouldn't they both try to activate after the horse is finished and therefore activate simoutaneously? If they activate simoutaneously then I would thing that the reach wouldn't be prevented.
The activation of Pigs LS comes as a direct result of PC&H; all things associated with PC&H resolve under the umbrella of its interrupt.
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Why can the lost soul insert its ability before reach activates again? Wouldn't they both try to activate after the horse is finished and therefore activate simoutaneously? If they activate simoutaneously then I would thing that the reach wouldn't be prevented.
The activation of Pigs LS comes as a direct result of PC&H; all things associated with PC&H resolve under the umbrella of its interrupt.
but you said here
By the time Pigs activates to start preventing drawing, all the drawing on those cards has been completed, since Pigs can't activate until all currently resolving abilities resolve
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Reach is interrupted, and while it is, it's not a currently resolving ability.
I'm probably not explaining it very well, or I could be a bit off, but that's how I see it. Perhaps another elder could clarify/correct me.
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Hey,
Does a Pigs LS drawn via an interrupt/draw/play enhancement prevent draw abilities on enhancements that the interrupt/draw/play enhancement interrupted?
I'd say yes. My thinking is that the game rule that says lost souls are played when drawn effectively turns draw abilities into draw and play (any drawn lost souls) abilities. Which means that when an interrupt and draw ability draws the pigs lost soul it has an interrupt and prevent effect split across two cards (comparable to Battle Cry banding in Shamhuth) which works the same as an interrupt and prevent effect on one card.
Which also means...
Similarly, if you were to play a draw/play next enhancement, draw the revealer, then play a card that discards the top card of opponent's deck, the discard happens first, then the revealer activates and reveals two.
I disagree with that.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Similarly, if you were to play a draw/play next enhancement, draw the revealer, then play a card that discards the top card of opponent's deck, the discard happens first, then the revealer activates and reveals two.
I disagree with that.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Really? So you're saying the reveal would happen before the playing of the next enhancement? That seems odd to me...
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It would seem to me that all instant abilities must complete before new abilities are added. I would rule LS abilities complete after other abilities resolve.
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I thought that Prof A's original response was right. However if I understand Tim correctly and his logic is right (not sure about that) then that shows how the lost soul activates when drawn.
The rule says that cards are played one at a time and all have to complete activating before another card is played, right? But there is an obvious exception when a card's ability causes another ability to be activated, ie banding and play abilities. You don't say that Reach has to complete before another card is played; rather the new enhancement played is part of Reach completing. The other exception here is a game rule that says something happens AS PART of the draw ability so it is included. The game rule to draw another card to replace the lost soul happens before the play ability so why not the other game rule here? So in the example:
You play Philly Horses and first interrupt the battle. Then you draw 2 cards with a lost soul as one of them. By game rule, drawing a soul causes it to be placed in territory and activated. Also by game rule you draw another card to replace it. You have now finished drawing your cards so you then choose to play an enhancement. When that card completes then Philly Horses has completed and the interrupt ends.
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Adding another question to this mix:
If pigs is already out and I play something like Horses, would the ITB on horses work against Pigs, allowing me to draw 2?
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No. The definition of ITB only interrupts characters and enhancements in battle.