Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Korunks on April 08, 2010, 10:44:16 AM
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Does the High Priests Palace + Crown of Thorns + the 1/3 Pharisees and Sadducees still work? With all the game rule "changes"(clarifications, whatever) lately I am not sure what is a legal combo any more and what isn't.
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i think that works i ain't see anything that says it does't(i'v been awile and it worked when i got here) (what's with all the 101 posts?)
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IDK the 101 idea seemed like fun, yeah but when I got here several things worked that now don't. So I have to ask before I even think of anything, to make sure its legal.
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Yes, it works. "Protected from discard" (the wording on HPP) means protected from discard by SA or by game rule. "Protected from discard special abilities" would not protect against Crown of Thorns, since it is not the SA of Crown that is doing the discarding, it is the game rule of EC's being discarded after reaching */0 or less doing it. But, again, HPP says from discard, so you can have 1/0 Pharisees and Sadducees chilling in your territory ready to block even the best Zebulun attack.
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Good I like that Idea :)
Now lets say I play an enhancement that gives them defensive numbers and they win the battle, are they discarded?
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Yes. During battle resolution, all enhancements played are discarded (except placed/wc of course) and all characters at less than zero toughness are discarded; the rest return to territory. So unless you play a card that says they gain toughness until end of turn, they will be discarded.
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Protect allows cards to be unaffected by specified special abilities ...
I thought it was ruled because of this passage that protect abilities cannot protect from game rule, and thus since Crown of Thorns itself does not do any discarding, HPP could not protect from it...at least, that's what I thought...
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This is why I wanted the ruling confirmed, sooner rather than latter states is only a month away here in the NE.
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Hmm...I've never seen that before. Interesting point.
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I don't know if an official decision was ever made regarding High Priests Palace.
There was a long discussion about Protection of Angels (Priests) and whether or not it protected from numbers or just special abilities. I think that the end result of that discussion is that you cannot protect from numbers.
It seems that for consistency sake HPP would not protect from Crown of Thorns causing discard by game rule but I don't know that for certain.
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This is why I wanted the ruling confirmed, sooner rather than latter states is only a month away here in the NE.
Well, hopefully you'll have smart judges like me there. ;D
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It seems that for consistency sake HPP would not protect from Crown of Thorns causing discard by game rule but I don't know that for certain.
Although one could make that argument from consistency (and apparently Gabe has), my understanding is that HPP still protects from in territory discard for any reason. At least that is the consensus that seemed to emerge from the original PoA/discard by the numbers discussion.
At my advanced age it is possible, however, that I was unable to hear a change made to this rule subsequent to that.
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korunks quick delete this so it still works!
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Well, hopefully you'll have smart judges like me there.
Well unless you're gonna be in MD around June 19 we are still stuck with dumb judges like me. ;)
korunks quick delete this so it still works!
I am under the impression that it currently works. I am hoping if I cause enough noise the PTB will maybe make a few decisions on certain rules. I know they're busy but I haven't had any confirmation on rulings in the past few days. Squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that.
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Well, hopefully you'll have smart judges like me there.
Well unless you're gonna be in MD around June 19 we are still stuck with dumb judges like me. ;)
You know, I actually might be, no joke. My great aunt lives in Chesapeake Bay, and my little brother is going there sometime this summer on a trip to see DC and stuff, and I might be going with him since my grandma might not be able to this year, as she has with all the other kids in our family. I'm just not sure when it is...
But even if I can make it there, which is a looooong shot, I doubt you would seriously want me to judge. ::)
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For the record I'm not saying it doesn't work. In fact I would prefer that it does. I also thought that PoA s&could protect from numbers so obviously I'm not. always right. :)
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I doubt you would seriously want me to judge. Roll Eyes
On the contrary I wouldn't mind in the least. If you actually made it though I wouldn't ask you to judge, you didn't travel all that way to watch others play. Also I usually rule by consensus, If I hit a snag where I am unsure if I am wrong I ask the other playgroup leaders(and elite players) for their input and usually we reach a agreement.
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obviously I'm not. always right.
That's true. Sometimes you are right in non-obvious ways. ;)
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obviously I'm not. always right.
That's true. Sometimes you are right in non-obvious ways. ;)
This is what happens when someone with fat thumbs and bad eyesight tries to type on a little phone with a small screen.
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So any word on official ruling or are we stuck ruling this as it always has been?
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I think the REG quote is pretty conclusive, but I guess I would like an official's word.
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Unless we get an official word telling us otherwise I don't see any reason not to play it as it's always been. That means that Pharisees and Sadducees in territory are not discarded when both High Priests Palace and Crown of Thorns are in play.
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Since HPP was designed to protect them from discard because of Crown of Thorns, I still rule my tournaments the way Gabe just described.
"Protect from discard" includes protection from discard by any means (discard special abilities, game rule after decrease special abilities, etc.).
"Protect from discard abilities" protects ONLY from discard by a discard special ability.
If the rules are changed to make protect ONLY protect from special abilities, then we'll have to revisit Enoch, too, right? Plus, I'll be sad that another card doesn't do what it was designed to do. :(
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;D Thank you Bryon, its nice to know that this still works.
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Since HPP was designed to protect them from discard because of Crown of Thorns, I still rule my tournaments the way Gabe just described.
"Protect from discard" includes protection from discard by any means (discard special abilities, game rule after decrease special abilities, etc.).
"Protect from discard abilities" protects ONLY from discard by a discard special ability.
If the rules are changed to make protect ONLY protect from special abilities, then we'll have to revisit Enoch, too, right? Plus, I'll be sad that another card doesn't do what it was designed to do. :(
I agree with this conclusion. It makes protection easier to understand. Does this mean, however, that Protection of Angels will protect a hero in a battle determined BTN? I would think so, but I'm not sure.
Protection of Angels
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and protect all Heroes in play and set aside areas from evil cards until end of turn. • Identifiers: OT, Involves Music • Verse: Psalms 91:11 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Common)
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Does this mean, however, that Protection of Angels will protect a hero in a battle determined BTN?
I was thinking the same thing. If it doesn't, we have a conflict (but I guess we already do because of the contra-REG ruling (which I am happy about BTW) :P).
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I always assumed PoA worked to protect the heroes from the numbers on evil cards.
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I always assumed PoA worked to protect the heroes from the numbers on evil cards.
I did as well, and was crushed when I discovered it did not work this way.
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I always assumed PoA worked to protect the heroes from the numbers on evil cards.
If Bryon says it protects from numbers, then PoA protects from numbers. At least until a new REG comes out, or Rob makes a ruling. Those are the only 2 things that have more weight to than a Bryon ruling.
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My great aunt lives in Chesapeake Bay
What kind of oxygen tank does she use? Or, is she an aquatic animal?
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My great aunt lives in Chesapeake Bay
What kind of oxygen tank does she use? Or, is she an aquatic animal?
She lives in a lighthouse, silly.
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She lives in a lighthouse, silly.
So, aquatic, then.
The Sads combo has always worked the way it's described here for as long as I have known, and I am hoping it continues to be played that way in the future, because my Sads deck really needs that in order to be effective.
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She lives in a lighthouse, silly.
So, aquatic, then.
Aquatic human, yes. Kind of like Aquaman, except without the cool animal telepathy thing..... and she's a woman.....
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And Aquaman wears orange and green shorty-shorts ... he's knocking on the door, far as I'm concerned.
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And Aquaman wears orange and green shorty-shorts ... he's knocking on the door, far as I'm concerned.
He would definitely win the award for lamest SuperFriends member if it weren't for those pesky Wonder Twins.
I mean seriously, if given the superpower to become the shape of anything you could possibly imagine, who else would have "shape of a pail of water" be about the best thing they could come up with to defeat the bad guys. What is this, the Wizard of Oz?
Thankfully the Wonder Twins were dropped before the new Justice League series. Although that does put Aquaman up at the top of the lameness scale now...
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Does anyone else notice one of them ALWAYS turns into SOME water based item?
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My great aunt lives in Chesapeake Bay
What kind of oxygen tank does she use? Or, is she an aquatic animal?
Actually, she is a marine biologist and is studying a new species of crustaceans in the area.
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Actually, she is a marine biologist and is studying a new species of crustaceans in the area.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_0ugcvpv8FtE%2FSYgBuyK82YI%2FAAAAAAAAAAc%2FRA-6vY4jNhk%2Fs320%2Fsebastian2.jpg&hash=b3fe83451e4e38c9768b3a98625dfaf2e7e2f359) ? ?
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And Aquaman wears orange and green shorty-shorts ... he's knocking on the door, far as I'm concerned.
He would definitely win the award for lamest SuperFriends member if it weren't for those pesky Wonder Twins.
I mean seriously, if given the superpower to become the shape of anything you could possibly imagine, who else would have "shape of a pail of water" be about the best thing they could come up with to defeat the bad guys. What is this, the Wizard of Oz?
Thankfully the Wonder Twins were dropped before the new Justice League series. Although that does put Aquaman up at the top of the lameness scale now...
lameo yes but that was how there power worked it had to be water based.
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Actually, she is a marine biologist and is studying a new species of crustaceans in the area.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_0ugcvpv8FtE%2FSYgBuyK82YI%2FAAAAAAAAAAc%2FRA-6vY4jNhk%2Fs320%2Fsebastian2.jpg&hash=b3fe83451e4e38c9768b3a98625dfaf2e7e2f359) ? ?
Are you calling my aunt a mutant lobster?
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Actually, she is a marine biologist and is studying a new species of crustaceans in the area.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_0ugcvpv8FtE%2FSYgBuyK82YI%2FAAAAAAAAAAc%2FRA-6vY4jNhk%2Fs320%2Fsebastian2.jpg&hash=b3fe83451e4e38c9768b3a98625dfaf2e7e2f359) ? ?
Are you calling my aunt a mutant lobster?
According to Dave Barry, world famous deep thinker, lobsters are mutant ants (or mutant insects of some type at any rate)...
I am pleased to report that the scientific community has finally stopped wasting time on the origins of the universe and started dealing with the important question, which is: Are lobsters really just big insects?
I have always maintained that they are. I personally see no significant difference between a lobster and, say, a giant Madagascar hissing cockroach, which is a type of cockroach that grows to approximately the size of William Howard Taft (1857-1930). If a group of diners were sitting in a nice restaurant, and the waiter were to bring them each a freshly killed, steaming-hot Madagascar hissing cockroach, they would not put on silly bibs and eat it with butter. No, they would run, retching, directly from the restaurant to the All-Nite Drive-Thru Lawsuit Center. And yet these very same people will pay $24.95 apiece to eat a lobster, despite the fact that it displays all three of the classic biological characteristics of an insect, namely:
1. It has way more legs than necessary.
2. There is no way you would ever pet it.
3. It does not respond to simple commands such as, ``Here, boy!''
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Actually, she is a marine biologist and is studying a new species of crustaceans in the area.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_0ugcvpv8FtE%2FSYgBuyK82YI%2FAAAAAAAAAAc%2FRA-6vY4jNhk%2Fs320%2Fsebastian2.jpg&hash=b3fe83451e4e38c9768b3a98625dfaf2e7e2f359) ? ?
Are you calling my aunt a mutant lobster?
According to Dave Barry, world famous deep thinker, lobsters are mutant ants (or mutant insects of some type at any rate)...
So, you're calling my aunt a mutant ant? ...Well, that's okay then...
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Ant is how we pronounce Aunt around here anyway.