Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Josh on June 04, 2010, 12:44:17 PM
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Scenario: I have a Saul/Paul card in play that I have successfully converted to Paul. I attack with Paul. My opponent blocks with an orange character and plays Corrupted. Does Paul become a 10/10 brown character with CBN enhancements? Or does something else happen since he used to be an evil character?
Corrupted - "Convert a human Hero to a brown brigade Evil Character. Cannot be prevented by a good card if an occupied Site is in play."
Saul/Paul (Paul side) - "May not be poisoned. All enhancements played on Paul may not be interrupted, negated or prevented."
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Paul should not be corrupted either. :D
But I would guess he becomes a CBN 10/10 brown evil character.
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Paul should not be corrupted either. :D
But I would guess he becomes a CBN 10/10 brown evil character.
He loses his SA all converted heros do.
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This is another one in which Walter and I are very perturbed:
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjimfairthorne.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F09%2Fwalter.jpg&hash=aeaffa4f4cc8a56275b2fef4a8680b69b5f2cfb6)
Here's the REG entry for conversion that has been in place a long time:
Instant Abilities > Convert
How to Use
Evil Characters may only be converted to Hero brigade colors (i.e., blue, green, purple, red, silver, teal, white, and gold). The only exception is Saul/Paul (as Saul), whose natural brigade color is multicolor when a Hero. When no color is specified on a conversion enhancement card, the character converts to the same brigade color as the conversion enhancement card. The converted character remains under the control of its owner. The character reverts to its original state only if the card is returned to the draw pile, placed in the discard pile, or converted back. The character remains converted even if set aside, captured, or rescued. Rules for duplicate characters still apply.
Yet I have been told by actual Elders that you can create a 1/1 hero by converting, setting aside with Worship of Milcom, and converting back.
To me, they've been breaking the rules all this time!
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Paul should not be corrupted either. :D
But I would guess he becomes a CBN 10/10 brown evil character.
He loses his SA all converted heros do.
Correct, not that it makes one iota of sense.
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Paul should not be corrupted either. :D
But I would guess he becomes a CBN 10/10 brown evil character.
He loses his SA all converted heros do.
Correct, not that it makes one iota of sense.
It's to prevent amsai the raider and gabe abuse.
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It's to prevent amsai the raider and gabe abuse.
Well that doesn't make any sense. They are much more abusive as heroes since you can Battle Challenge with them.
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It has been stated before (can't find the thread o_O again) that Cactus has always intended the Heroes to remain, as a whole, slightly stronger than the ECs. This was one of the reasons that Heroes did not retain their SAs when converted to ECs and ECs retained as much of their SA as possible, that did not contradict game rules, when converted to Heroes.
Godspeed,
Mike
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It has been stated before (can't find the thread o_O again) that Cactus has always intended the Heroes to remain, as a whole, slightly stronger than the ECs. This was one of the reasons that Heroes did not retain their SAs when converted to ECs and ECs retained as much of their SA as possible, that did not contradict game rules, when converted to Heroes.
Godspeed,
Mike
I think ECs are more powerful than heros...king zed anyone?
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It has been stated before (can't find the thread o_O again) that Cactus has always intended the Heroes to remain, as a whole, slightly stronger than the ECs. This was one of the reasons that Heroes did not retain their SAs when converted to ECs and ECs retained as much of their SA as possible, that did not contradict game rules, when converted to Heroes.
Godspeed,
Mike
Yeah, I remember, still makes no sense gameplay wise.
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So a character with CBN status loses when converted? please explain...
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So a character with CBN status loses when converted? please explain...
Its not that his ability is negated, he just seems to outright lose it.
This brings up the question... I know no cards specify no-sa EC's, but would a converted hero be considered one?
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So a character with CBN status loses when converted? please explain...
Good point. We've all been told that CBN sticks to the table.
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I think the idea behind this is that we don't want people converting their heroes to evil characters on purpose to take advantage of some sneaky special ability. The point of Redemption is to save lost souls (which is a very Christian idea). If the game made it so that people were purposefully causing backsliding and apostasy, that would go against the very fabric of the game itself.
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Kind of like a deck with no Heroes? ;)
When a Hero converts to an Evil Character their ability does not convert with them. It doesn't have anything to do with negating the ability so whether or not it's CBN is irrelevant.
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Kind of like a deck with no Heroes? ;)
When a Hero converts to an Evil Character their ability does not convert with them. It doesn't have anything to do with negating the ability so whether or not it's CBN is irrelevant.
So, if there was an evil version of Windows of Narrow Light, a Hero with an SA would be converted into an EC that could use said artifact?
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Having no SA and having a SA that does not convert are not the same in my mind.
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Having no SA and having a SA that does not convert are not the same in my mind.
Grat, so now I'm really confused:
A hero has a CBN SA, and is converted, so he loses the ability, but it isn't being negated...but he still has it...?
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Grat, so now I'm really confused:
A hero has a CBN SA, and is converted, so he loses the ability, but it isn't being negated...but he still has it...?
It doesn't seem like your confused at all. It sounds like you understand it perfectly. :)
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Grat, so now I'm really confused:
A hero has a CBN SA, and is converted, so he loses the ability, but it isn't being negated...but he still has it...?
It doesn't seem like your confused at all. It sounds like you understand it perfectly. :)
Well in that case I'm just mad. How can someone lose an ability yet still be considered to have an ability without his ability being negated?
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Scenario: I have a Saul/Paul card in play that I have successfully converted to Paul. I attack with Paul. My opponent blocks with an orange character and plays Corrupted. Does Paul become a 10/10 brown character with CBN enhancements? Or does something else happen since he used to be an evil character?
Corrupted - "Convert a human Hero to a brown brigade Evil Character. Cannot be prevented by a good card if an occupied Site is in play."
Saul/Paul (Paul side) - "May not be poisoned. All enhancements played on Paul may not be interrupted, negated or prevented."
Isn't this a protect ability? I always saw this as a protect ability. That is how it's played with Melkasadek (sp) If so, then He can't be corrupted anyways unless you interrupt it.
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Isn't this a protect ability? I always saw this as a protect ability. That is how it's played with Melkasadek (sp) If so, then He can't be corrupted anyways unless you interrupt it.
Yeah, its a protect.... but only against Posions. Conversion is VERY different from Poison.
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Well in that case I'm just mad.
There are very few cards in the game that can even do what we're talking about. There are even less times that it will actually matter. If this is enough to make you mad then I'll suggest you take a step back and look at what's really important in life. This isn't it.
But while we're discussing things that don't really matter... shall we talk about wookies? ;)
How can someone lose an ability yet still be considered to have an ability without his ability being negated?
By changing their card type and following the game rules that apply to that change.
The same way that a Hero can be considered a Redeemed Soul, by capturing them (changing their card type), then rescuing them. I don't remember anyone complaining about that.
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I meant to put an eye-roll in my post to indicate jokingness, although I still do find it annoyingly and unnecessarily confusing the way this is treated.
And if you want to focus on things that actually matter, then maybe you should leave your job, sell everything you own, buy a bunch of Bibles, and start evangelizing to everyone you see on the street. No? kthxbai ;)
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shall we talk about wookies? ;)
Ooh ooh ooh ooh I WANNA TALK ABOUT WOOKIES!!!! Zanzibar, and Hanhar, and my favorite....CHEWBACCA!!!
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Hey,
How can someone lose an ability yet still be considered to have an ability without his ability being negated?
"Lose" is one of those words we use because it's easy to understand and not because it's technically exactly what happens. Technically the ability on the converted character remains but doesn't activate when that character enters battle.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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I realized my original question can work in reverse as well...
So, if I convert an EC with an ability that harms another hero.... I would not be allowed to use Windows of Narrow Light or Passover Preparations on him?
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Okay, I understand the way it works. I was just being stubborn.
I do think it would be easier to just treat it as "losing" a character's ability, because it's simpler, but I don't have a problem with it either way.
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Hey,
So, if I convert an EC with an ability that harms another hero.... I would not be allowed to use Windows of Narrow Light or Passover Preparations on him?
Correct.
Additionally, if a character like Lot's Wife is converted, it would be ignored by Household Idols and/or discarded by Torn Mantle because it is a good card with a banding ability despite the fact that it can never use it's banding ability while it's a good card.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Hey,
So, if I convert an EC with an ability that harms another hero.... I would not be allowed to use Windows of Narrow Light or Passover Preparations on him?
Correct.
Additionally, if a character like Lot's Wife is converted, it would be ignored by Household Idols and/or discarded by Torn Mantle because it is a good card with a banding ability despite the fact that it can never use it's banding ability while it's a good card.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Actually this is quite easy to understand, especially since it is like our government:
Tax man: "Do you own this property?"
You: "Yes, but I can't use it because it's disappeared into a sink hole!"
Tax man: "Doesn't matter. Here's your bill for your property taxes."
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There are very few cards in the game that can even do what we're talking about. There are even less times that it will actually matter. If this is enough to make you mad then I'll suggest you take a step back and look at what's really important in life. This isn't it.
But while we're discussing things that don't really matter... shall we talk about wookies? ;)
This answer (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12349.msg338927#msg338927) could solve sooooooo many ruling questions :)
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Pffft, that quote wouldn't stop me from arguing. ;) I'll argue until every last extremely hypothetical situation that might be broken is argued about! :D
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I like STAMPs post also :) So true.
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we're STILL not talking about wookies...WHY NOT??