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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Rawrlolsauce! on December 11, 2010, 05:36:47 PM

Title: Opponent
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on December 11, 2010, 05:36:47 PM
I locked the last thread as it is more appropriate in this forum, in hindsight. It'll probably get the more appropriate audience, also. If you want to know the back story it can be found at http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=24709.0 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=24709.0)


Who is my opponent at any time? Why can I play HT on anyone, even if I'm in battle with someone else or don't attack that player, but I can't attack player A with Nathan and make player B shuffle?
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on December 11, 2010, 05:40:12 PM
I moved it to try and avoid the name calling and accusations (which seems like it isn't going to work), as well as placing it in a more appropriate forum. If you're not discussing one of the topics at hand, please do not post.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: christiangamer25 on December 11, 2010, 05:41:43 PM
i am discussing the topic at hand you wanting opponet changed to meet your ulterior motives and not caring how many other cards or decks it ruins because all you care about is yourself
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcactusgamedesign.com%2Fmessage_boards%2FThemes%2Fdefault%2Fimages%2Fwarnpmod.gif&hash=bc306538caeb0188fb1ccfe476add81c7473f295) Give it a rest.  This makes things worse and not better.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: Red on December 11, 2010, 05:43:19 PM
I wish common sense was common.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: The Schaef on December 11, 2010, 05:43:19 PM
"An" or "any" opponent is anyone else at the table with you.  "Your" opponent is the one you're battling at that moment.  Since battles tend to have my characters against your characters, then reasonably, the guy whose characters are fighting my characters is "the" opponent.  This is specific enough to clarify that it's not just anyone at the table, but general enough to be more accurate than saying "the guy blocking the rescue", because from the blocker's perspective, the rescuer is the opponent.

From time to time one party or the other may temporarily have no characters in the battle at that exact moment but that does not change this very basic formula which has been the foundation of battles in Redemption, and really, in every (competitive) card game ever made.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: Red on December 11, 2010, 05:46:28 PM
"An" or "any" opponent is anyone else at the table with you.  "Your" opponent is the one you're battling at that moment.  Since battles tend to have my characters against your characters, then reasonably, the guy whose characters are fighting my characters is "the" opponent.  This is specific enough to clarify that it's not just anyone at the table, but general enough to be more accurate than saying "the guy blocking the rescue", because from the blocker's perspective, the rescuer is the opponent.

From time to time one party or the other may temporarily have no characters in the battle at that exact moment but that does not change this very basic formula which has been the foundation of battles in Redemption, and really, in every (competitive) card game ever made.
If this is the case many cards need Play as.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on December 11, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Thank you. Does this mean that HT is just poorly worded and should say "an opponent"?
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: The Schaef on December 11, 2010, 05:55:29 PM
Perhaps.  Or played more strictly to only apply in battle.  Either way matters little to me.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: Professoralstad on December 11, 2010, 06:04:30 PM
I see the main difference as which phase the cards are played in, as well as how many people are playing:

When only two people (or TEAMS) are playing then any version of opponent (an opponent, opponent, your opponent, etc.) refers to the other person (or either teammate of the other team).

For MP games:
During battle phase, "opponent", "opponent's" or "your opponent" mean either A) the person you are attacking or B) the person attacking you. "An opponent" or "one opponent" refers to anyone playing aside from yourself. "Opponents'" refers to everyone playing besides yourself. Dominants (specifically HT) are excluded from this, because they are special and can be played at any time.

During any other phase, "opponent", "your opponent", "an opponent", or "one opponent" are indistinct; they all refer to any single player besides yourself.

Convoluted? Probably. But I think intuitively it makes sense. It could possibly be made simpler by giving an errata (or perhaps a Play As would suffice since it is in fact how Harvest Time should be played) to Harvest Time to say: "Select an opponent with no Lost Souls in territory. Search his deck for a Lost Soul and put it in his territory." That way, the bit about dominants wouldn't need to be clarified. Either way, I think my explanation is how things have been generally understood to work. If other Elders agree with this, perhaps we can add it to The Guardian's thread of REG fixes.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on December 11, 2010, 06:09:16 PM
For MP games:
During any other phase, "opponent", "your opponent", "an opponent", or "one opponent" are indistinct; they all refer to any single player besides yourself.
Judges Seat doesn't exactly fall in with that logic, but otherwise it seems to work.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: The Schaef on December 11, 2010, 06:22:54 PM
So you can always select an opponent, except during the Battle Phase, "the/your opponent" is the one you're battling.

The "opponent" in Judge's Seat could very easily track back to the targeted Evil Character, but if it continues to present a problem, changing the word to "owner" should clear that up.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 12, 2010, 10:22:25 AM
As an aside, I have always assumed that you had to put your hero into battle first, then play Harvest Time.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: TheJaylor on December 12, 2010, 11:11:06 AM
you can play HT whenever you want. it is a dominant therefore it is instant
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 12, 2010, 11:28:13 AM
you can play HT whenever you want. it is a dominant therefore it is instant

You can play dominants whenever you want, but if you want them to work, certain conditions have to be met.

1. Grapes of Wrath is more useful if there is an evil card in battle.
2. Falling Away is more useful if your opponent has a redeemed soul.
3. Son of God is more useful if there is a Lost Soul in play.

Likewise,

5. Harvest Time is more useful with "your opponent," which doesn't happen until you start a battle.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on December 12, 2010, 11:37:08 AM
but like schaef said, you can choose your opponent like with judge's seat outside of battle. harvest time says your opponent and
Dominants (specifically HT) are excluded from this, because they are special and can be played at any time.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 12, 2010, 02:37:46 PM
but like schaef said, you can choose your opponent like with judge's seat outside of battle. harvest time says your opponent and
Dominants (specifically HT) are excluded from this, because they are special and can be played at any time.

This is being just decided now, though. Prior to this thread, I had to decide how to rule this based on the known ruleset, which is the reason Rawrlolsauce made this thread. It would have otherwise been a contradiction.
Title: Re: Opponent
Post by: The Schaef on December 12, 2010, 04:43:57 PM
I don't know if "decided" is an accurate a word as "clarified".  I don't recall hearing of anyone denying an HT play.
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