Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Bobbert on July 17, 2017, 11:26:46 AM
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Does the comma mean that it can search out any single brigade, OR any teal (including multi-brigade), OR any white (including multi-brigade)?
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You are not the only one who has been questioning that comma... ::)
However, the comma is there to indicate that the enhancement must be a single brigade Teal enhancement or a single brigade White enhancement.
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I kind of figured based on what seemed to be the intention of the card, but it seems like an odd choice grammatically - to my mind the comma opens it up to that interpretation, and it would have been clearer without it.
I guess I won't be recurring Pentecost every other turn :(
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Without the comma it reads:
"single brigade Teal or White enhancement" which would mean you could either get a single brigade Teal enhancement or any enhancement that included White.
As I mentioned, you are not the only one who thought that comma was odd--I don't recall off hand which card it is, but I believe we looked at a previously made card with a similar phrasing (condition + a list of options that all had that condition) and based our usage of the comma on that card for consistency.
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I kind of figured based on what seemed to be the intention of the card, but it seems like an odd choice grammatically - to my mind the comma opens it up to that interpretation, and it would have been clearer without it.
I guess I won't be recurring Pentecost every other turn :(
Recurring Pentecost? Think bigger than that - you could play Sword of the Lord for a preblock side battle every turn via Isaiah and Hidden Treasures ;)
I still don't like the comma. I'd rather it be "...single brigade enhancement (White or Teal)...", or even "...single brigade (White or Teal) enhancement...", if the intention is to only recur single-brigade White and single-brigade Teal GEs.
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I don't think Isaiah is considered a musician anymore, at least that was the ruling from MN States or Regionals this year.
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He is a Musician according to the REG.
I remember that coming up as well, but I don't recall who said what.
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He is a Musician according to the REG.
I remember that coming up as well, but I don't recall who said what.
I may have mistakenly said he wasn't at NC Regs, my apologies, it had been a long week
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It could have been me as well... Isaiah is a musician and NT Simeon isn't, but sometimes I forget which is which... :P
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I'm glad that was sorted out at least.
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Deborah/Sams Edict would of been nice
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Can't you guys just be happy with Phinehas/Zeal... ::)
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Can't you guys just be happy with Phinehas/Zeal... ::)
It's not a pure recursion like Isaiah (unless Eleazar is in play and you are doing his shenanigans with House of Eleazar Priests) :P
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Doesn't seem that hard to pull off... 8)
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Can't you guys just be happy with Phinehas/Zeal... ::)
It's not a pure recursion like Isaiah (unless Eleazar is in play and you are doing his shenanigans with House of Eleazar Priests) :P
Actually, that's another question I had. Does Tabernacle, as a temple, activate before or after Eleazar, as a TC hero? They both say "If your Tabernacle Priest enters battle...", so does the "hero activates first" still apply to TC?
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I'm not 100% certain but I think you get to choose which to resolve first.
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I agree with Hartz that this really should be changed. The fact that questions have already come up about this is tell-tale of the many questions tournament hosts and other players will receive concerning the meaning of the ability based upon one misplaced comma. The way it is written, grammatically, indicates that it can be any kind of single brigade card, or teal or white enh. If it is simply changed to read one of the ways Hartz mentioned or even "single-brigade teal or white enh" (this wording also works with EMS's "multi-brigade good or evil card" wording) this would head off any future, unnecessary clarifying questions about this part of the ability.
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They are already printed...the comma stands as called. :)
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A list, such as "a single-brigade, teal, or white Enhancement," rightfully includes the Oxford comma which comes before the conjunction. It is argued that the Oxford comma is unnecessary but it most cases it is helpful for clarification. In this particular case, it isn't a list, which is why there is only the single comma. The single comma separates coordinating adjectives that describe the noun "Enhancement." The first adjective is "single-brigade" and then second is either "teal" or "white."
Perhaps a clearer wording would have been "teal or white, single-brigade Enhancement" to make it distinct from a list, but the way it is written isn't wrong.
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A list, such as "a single-brigade, teal, or white Enhancement," rightfully includes the Oxford comma which comes before the conjunction. It is argued that the Oxford comma is unnecessary but it most cases it is helpful for clarification. In this particular case, it isn't a list, which is why there is only the single comma. The single comma separates coordinating adjectives that describe the noun "Enhancement." The first adjective is "single-brigade" and then second is either "teal" or "white."
Perhaps a clearer wording would have been "teal or white, single-brigade Enhancement" to make it distinct from a list, but the way it is written isn't wrong.
"teal or white, single-brigade Enhancement" sounds so perfect and makes no confusion. It could be an example for the game developers to word the future cards with such wordings in order to make them more understandable...
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A list, such as "a single-brigade, teal, or white Enhancement," rightfully includes the Oxford comma which comes before the conjunction. It is argued that the Oxford comma is unnecessary but it most cases it is helpful for clarification. In this particular case, it isn't a list, which is why there is only the single comma. The single comma separates coordinating adjectives that describe the noun "Enhancement." The first adjective is "single-brigade" and then second is either "teal" or "white."
Perhaps a clearer wording would have been "teal or white, single-brigade Enhancement" to make it distinct from a list, but the way it is written isn't wrong.
Just because something is not "wrong" does not mean it's written in a way that's helpful. As a programmer I run into this issue a lot where there are a multitude of approaches to a problem and none of them may have a different meaning or are necessarily wrong but can still cause confusion so the clearer approach should be taken.
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It's still wrong because Oxford is supposed to be for clarity but this one causes confusion.
I'm completely baffled how this made it all the way to print worded the way it is (where everyone including me that I know about read it as single colour, or including white or including teal) instead of the way Koala immediately figured out would have been much better.
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But there is no Oxford comma...Koala was pointing out how it would read if there was an Oxford (i.e. it would be a list).
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http://theeditorsblog.net/2015/08/08/one-adjective-paired-with-multiple-nouns-a-readers-question/ (http://theeditorsblog.net/2015/08/08/one-adjective-paired-with-multiple-nouns-a-readers-question/) TL/DR-Repetition for the sake of clarity is always better. I.E Single brigade white or single-brigade teal enhancement.
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And if there had been room to fit that in the ability, we would have. ::)
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"White or teal single-brigade enhancement" is longer than "single brigade, white or teal enhancement?"
The oxford commas presence or absence has nothing to do with it. No matter how you do the commas, doing the words in the printed order reads as a list, not a condition followed by two modified elements.
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"White or teal single-brigade enhancement" is longer than "single brigade, white or teal enhancement?"
The oxford commas presence or absence has nothing to do with it. No matter how you do the commas, doing the words in the printed order reads as a list, not a condition followed by two modified elements.
No he's talking about the repetition option, not the moving "single-Brigade" back.