Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Prof Underwood on September 11, 2009, 12:39:21 AM
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We all know that if you have GiC up as an art, and discard it to capture a hero in battle, that it can't be negated. But what about in battle?
Imagine a crimson character is blocking a larger hero. They play GiC in battle, and immediately discard it to capture the hero. Normally the hero would not be able to negate that with a regular negate (because GiC is no longer in play). Normally the hero would have to play a "negate last" that would be able to target GiC in the discard pile.
So the question is what would happen if the hero interrupted the battle and discarded the crimson EC. Normally that would cause ongoing EEs in battle to fizzle. But GiC isn't "in battle" anymore. So does it fizzle because the EC is gone? Or does it still capture, because it was never negated with a "negate last"?
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The hero never has the initiative. True, he technically does because he is being removed, but as ITB only interrupts enhancement causing removal if they are still in battle, there is no way to interrupt GiC. Therefore, I don't think he can at all.
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Aha, fun fun fun. I hope it turns out this way.
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You can interrupt an enhancement that discards itself if it transfers initiative with either a "Negate Last" or "Interrupt the battle" Card. In the case of an interrupt, it inserts whatever ability following the initial interrupt in BEFORE whatever it's interrupting. In this case it would interrupt the entirety of GiC (bringing it back from the discard pile) and then discard the EC; by the time GiC tries to activate again there is no more EC and it fizzles.
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Arch Angel is correct. Interrupt the battle will interrupt the last Enhancement played by your opponent (in your example GitC). If you remove the EC during the interrupt and there is no other EC in battle for GitC to activate on, you have effectively negated it.
...but as ITB only interrupts enhancement causing removal if they are still in battle,...
I've never seen or heard of the underlined part before. Where do you get that from, Cam?
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It appears that Gabe and Arch are correct. According to the REG, ITB counts as an "interrupt last".
‘Interrupt the battle’ interrupts all active ongoing abilities on characters and enhancements (e.g. Red Dragon), abilities that are causing you to lose the battle by removal (e.g. King Zimri), as well as the last enhancement played in the current battle if it was played by your opponent.
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same example back in the day with abners spear
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I've never seen or heard of the underlined part before. Where do you get that from, Cam?
My own use of emphasis. :P
I just don't see how you can interrupt something that is no longer in battle. Let's say you could play an ITB card. So you kill the EC. GiC does not need to reactivate because it is no longer in play. ITB does not change that. ITB by definition (interrupt the battle) does not, IMO, interrupt cards not or no longer in battle.
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I just don't see how you can interrupt something that is no longer in battle. Let's say you could play an ITB card. So you kill the EC. GiC does not need to reactivate because it is no longer in play. ITB does not change that. ITB by definition (interrupt the battle) does not, IMO, interrupt cards not or no longer in battle.
The Card may not be, but its ability is. And the ability is what is interrupted not the card. Cards don't have to be in battle for their abilities to be active. just my :2cents:
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Say I RA with a 1/1 hero. Opponent blocks with Gomer banded to Uzzah. They use Uzzah's ability. Now it is my 1/1 hero vs a Gomer. If I played an ITB card, would that interrupt Uzzah's protect ability? I don't see how since he is dead and the effect is now IMO "cbn". I think you need the physical card to interrupt something, and the physical card is now gone.
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‘Interrupt the battle’ interrupts all active ongoing abilities on characters and enhancements (e.g. Red Dragon), abilities that are causing you to lose the battle by removal (e.g. King Zimri), as well as the last enhancement played in the current battle if it was played by your opponent.
There's nothing that says a card needs to be in play to be interrupted. In your example, yes, Uzzah's protect ability would be interrupted since it is ongoing. It's interrupted, but you don't really gain anything by doing so because when your interrupt completes the protect will kick back in.
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when your interrupt completes the protect will kick back in.
I think the question is, "how does the protect kick back in" if the card that caused it is now out of play?
And if that the discarded Uzzah's protection kicks back in, then why doesn't the discarded GiC's capture kick back in?
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GitC needs a character in battle to activate on because enhancements are used by Characters. Uzzah's SA does not.
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A card in the discard pile needs a character in battle to reactivate on? Interrupt the battle interrupts cards not in battle? There just seems to be some inconsistencies.
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Hey Cam, could you tell me what part is inconsistent? I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around why REG quote for interrupt the battle doesn't make this clear.
Thanks,
Gabe
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I agree with Gabe that the REG quote clearly states that "interrupt the battle" should reach into the discard pile to "negate last" the GiC.
I also agree with Cam that this rule does just seem to rub the wrong way.
I really don't have a strong feeling either way.
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You guys are forgetting something:
If you want to use it as an artifact, disregard the Bible picture and play the card as you would any other artifact.
GiC face-up as an artifact is treated as an artifact and NOT as an enhancement, so it can't be negated by something that negates an enhancement, whether or not it's still on the field. Also, since it's an artifact, when would your opponent have initiative to play an interrupt at all? Do they get to play one if you use Unholy Writ? Not to my knowledge. So why would they get to when using GiC from the artifact pile?
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I thought we were talking about GiC being used as an enhancement (and thus being in battle).
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I thought we were talking about GiC being used as an enhancement (and thus being in battle).
We were, lol
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Yeah, they are.
We all know that if you have GiC up as an art, and discard it to capture a hero in battle, that it can't be negated. But what about in battle?
On a side note, once the card is discarded, does it revert back to a curse in the discard pile? Can it still be targeted since it is no longer an enhancement, or would the game remember that it was an enhancement and allow the curse to be targeted?
On topic, though, I agree with Prof that interrupting out of play cards is strange, but correct.
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Meh, my mistake. I honestly dunno why you would use it as an enhancement, so I assumed he meant using the artifact ability during battle.
*goes and bangs his head on the wall*