Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: jtay on September 01, 2010, 12:18:39 AM
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I was reading through the disciples card list and I discovered an anomaly on the Luke 19:10 lost soul.
Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Beginning in the phase after this card is put in play, negate all special abilities on Lost Soul cards (except this one).
Could this be the first card that can negate the 2 and 3 liner souls?
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No.
3 (and 2) Liner have errata. The ability is an identifier. They cannot be negated.
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I was reading through the disciples card list and I discovered an anomaly on the Luke 19:10 lost soul.
Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Beginning in the phase after this card is put in play, negate all special abilities on Lost Soul cards (except this one).
Could this be the first card that can negate the 2 and 3 liner souls?
does it ever stop negating sa on lost souls?
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I was reading through the disciples card list and I discovered an anomaly on the Luke 19:10 lost soul.
Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Beginning in the phase after this card is put in play, negate all special abilities on Lost Soul cards (except this one).
Could this be the first card that can negate the 2 and 3 liner souls?
does it ever stop negating sa on lost souls?
Not until it is rescued or Burial'd.
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Since I don't think it got answered in the last thread I asked this in, I'll ask it again: Does this negate other copies of itself? If 2 copies are out, which one's SA works? If the one negating is shuffled, rescued, discarded, etc., does the other one's SA kick in and continue negating everything else?
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Since I don't think it got answered in the last thread I asked this in, I'll ask it again: Does this negate other copies of itself?
Yes. But there is no situation I can think of where it would matter.
If 2 copies are out, which one's SA works?
The one that activated first. If you draw two of them on the same turn, I guess you get to decide the order they activate. If you and your opponent both get one in the same phase, I guess it would probably come down to whichever one was put in play (and thus set the trigger) first. But like I said, I can't think of any situation where it would matter.
Since I don't think it got answered in the last thread I asked this in, I'll ask it again: Does this negate other copies of itself? If 2 copies are out, which one's SA works? If the one negating is shuffled, rescued, discarded, etc., does the other one's SA kick in and continue negating everything else?
Yes. Ongoing Lost Soul abilities only last until the Lost Soul is removed from play somehow (except for the anti-Burial, which works only when it is rescued). So removing the one that is negating the other would allow the other to kick back in, and continue negating every other Lost Soul.
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Thanks for the answers Prof!
One last question: If this and the Shuffler LS are out and I rescue this with SoG and the shuffler with NJ, do the other LSs get shuffled? I.E.: Does its ability last through the phase or only until the physical card is removed?
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Thanks for the answers Prof!
One last question: If this and the Shuffler LS are out and I rescue this with SoG and the shuffler with NJ, do the other LSs get shuffled? I.E.: Does its ability last through the phase or only until the physical card is removed?
No other abilities kick in between the rescues of Son of God and New Jerusalem. That includes the "kicking in" of the shuffler's ability to shuffle. So SoG+NJ on those two souls result in no other souls shuffled, but the rest of the LS abilities kick in afterwards.
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No other abilities kick in between the rescues of Son of God and New Jerusalem.
Except maybe Judas' Plot ;)
So SoG+NJ on those two souls result in no other souls shuffled, but the rest of the LS abilities kick in afterwards.
That's what I figured, thanks for the confirmation. :)
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Hey,
I disagree with Prof Alstad. If you slap down SOG then NJ and target the shuffler, that is the only soul that will be rescued. Then again, thats because SOG and NJ don't work beings once you play SOG the ability activates and rescues a soul. No game rule or SA allows you to play NJ simultaneously, so once SOG is done completing it is discarded and you play NJ which just fizzles.
Now, if you play NJ and then SOG, that might work.....
;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
(I was originally going to try and get this ruled at a local tournament because it'd be awesome and it seems like a good argument. But I decided that was too mean)
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It's been ruled many times that the shuffler's ability doesn't activate until after both SoG and NJ have rescued their souls. This happens because there is a SA allows you to play NJ simultaneously: NJ's.
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It's been ruled many times that the shuffler's ability doesn't activate until after both SoG and NJ have rescued their souls. This happens because there is a SA allows you to play NJ simultaneously: NJ's.
Right, thats why I said "if you play NJ first....". But I've never seen anyone throw NJ down before SOG. They always throw down SOG and then NJ. In that scenario, the second SOG is played it activates and is discarded. Then NJ fizzles.
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It's been ruled many times that the shuffler's ability doesn't activate until after both SoG and NJ have rescued their souls. This happens because there is a SA allows you to play NJ simultaneously: NJ's.
Right, thats why I said "if you play NJ first....". But I've never seen anyone throw NJ down before SOG. They always throw down SOG and then NJ. In that scenario, the second SOG is played it activates and is discarded. Then NJ fizzles.
I'm thinking I'm going to activate /haxxorz and make YOU fizzle.
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It's been ruled many times that the shuffler's ability doesn't activate until after both SoG and NJ have rescued their souls. This happens because there is a SA allows you to play NJ simultaneously: NJ's.
Right, thats why I said "if you play NJ first....". But I've never seen anyone throw NJ down before SOG. They always throw down SOG and then NJ. In that scenario, the second SOG is played it activates and is discarded. Then NJ fizzles.
I've only ever seen people put them both down at the same time.
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A.) That would be impossible on RTS.
B.) The one that hits the table first would activate first. I agree the majority of people do play them 'at the same time', but they play NJ on top of SOG 99%of the time, meaning they actually played SOG first.
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A.) That would be impossible on RTS.
B.) The one that hits the table first would activate first. I agree the majority of people do play them 'at the same time', but they play NJ on top of SOG 99%of the time, meaning they actually played SOG first.
NJ goes under SoG in my hand, so NJ hits the table first when I play them together. I guess I'm one of the 1% ;)
What's your point with this train of thought? I sense a derailment in its future.
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My point is in many situations I can be a jerk only allow my opponent to rescue 1 soul instead of 2 with SOG + NJ if they don't play it very carefully and my logic is correct.
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My point is in many situations I can be a jerk only allow my opponent to rescue 1 soul instead of 2 with SOG + NJ if they don't play it very carefully and my logic is correct.
I don't think your logic is correct, but I admittedly only have past precedence to go on.
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My point is in many situations I can be a jerk only allow my opponent to rescue 1 soul instead of 2 with SOG + NJ if they don't play it very carefully and my logic is correct.
Your logic isn't correct. Simultaneous has been defined in Redemption terms as "within a few milliseconds" (or maybe up to half a second on RTS). Basically enough time for your NJ to activate simultaneously with your SoG, and not enough time for your opponent to react with his own NJ. So even if SoG instantaneously rescued and was discarded before NJ activated (which I suppose you could argue, possibly successfully to some judges), NJ would still be played simultaneously with the SoG you just played, since it activated within a few milliseconds of your SoG.
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No.
3 (and 2) Liner have errata. The ability is an identifier. They cannot be negated.
Reprints of these cards might be nice in the future. I have my share from way back when, but with the changes in rules and additions of new players new versions could not hurt.
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Your logic isn't correct. Simultaneous has been defined in Redemption terms as "within a few milliseconds" (or maybe up to half a second on RTS). Basically enough time for your NJ to activate simultaneously with your SoG, and not enough time for your opponent to react with his own NJ. So even if SoG instantaneously rescued and was discarded before NJ activated (which I suppose you could argue, possibly successfully to some judges), NJ would still be played simultaneously with the SoG you just played, since it activated within a few milliseconds of your SoG.
>:c. Thats more fail than the angry mob ruling >:c.
EDIT: Does that mean I can actually play enhancements simultaneously if I play one, my opponent passes init, and I play another within the few miliseconds?
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Your logic isn't correct. Simultaneous has been defined in Redemption terms as "within a few milliseconds" (or maybe up to half a second on RTS). Basically enough time for your NJ to activate simultaneously with your SoG, and not enough time for your opponent to react with his own NJ. So even if SoG instantaneously rescued and was discarded before NJ activated (which I suppose you could argue, possibly successfully to some judges), NJ would still be played simultaneously with the SoG you just played, since it activated within a few milliseconds of your SoG.
>:c. Thats more fail than the angry mob ruling >:c.
EDIT: Does that mean I can actually play enhancements simultaneously if I play one, my opponent passes init, and I play another within the few miliseconds?
So all enhancements played by Arrogance are simultaneous?
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Arrogance (Pa)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may play as many evil enhancements as desired. Initiative passes when holder is done playing enhancements. • Play As: Holder may play as many evil enhancements as desired [play an enhancement]. Initiative passes when holder is done playing enhancements. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon, Connected with David • Verse: I Samuel 17:43-44 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Rare)
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The one that hits the table first would activate first. I agree the majority of people do play them 'at the same time', but they play NJ on top of SOG 99%of the time, meaning they actually played SOG first.
I'm apologize in advance...but that is just ridiculous. If we start arguing about which card actually physically hit the table first and that effecting how they are played, this game is going to be abandoned by the time this year is out....
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Well, I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that the game hasn't been abandoned because we have a lack of initiative for Dominants. The bad news is, arguments over which hit the table first aren't that uncommon.
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Back on topic with this Lost Soul...
If it is already in play and the Hopper Lost Soul is then drawn, does it go in the owner's Land of Bondage or the opponent's?
Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: When drawn, place this Lost Soul in one opponent's Land of Bondage. Does not count toward Lost Soul deck building requirements. • Errata: (Treat the last sentence of the special ability as an identifier.) • Identifiers: None • Verse: II Chronicles 28:13 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Rare)
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The Hopper would go into the players land of bondage which drew it, since the 'hop' ability was negated.
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That was my thought, but I wanted to make sure - thanks! :)
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So, back to my topic. Can I play enhancements simultaneously? If so, do they activate in the order I play them or the order I choose? ;)
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You get to choose the order you play them, so I don't see how this would matter... Am I missing something?
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No, you cannot play enhancements simultaneously. The only cards you can play simultaneously are SOG and NJ because of the wording of NJ.
Kevin Shride
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No, you cannot play enhancements simultaneously. The only cards you can play simultaneously are SOG and NJ because of the wording of NJ.
Kevin Shride
So you're saying Prof Alstad's post is incorrect? I hope not. I like what it can bring :-*
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It's not me doing it this time Kevin!
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No, you cannot play enhancements simultaneously. The only cards you can play simultaneously are SOG and NJ because of the wording of NJ.
Kevin Shride
So you're saying Prof Alstad's post is incorrect? I hope not. I like what it can bring :-*
Which part of my post would you say Kevin thinks is incorrect? I see no contradiction.
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Oxford Dictionaries Online defines Simultaneously as -
simultaneously (si·mul·ta·ne·ous·ly) - at the same time
New Jerusalem (P)
Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Play this card simultaneously with the Son of God card and rescue any additional Lost Soul in play. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Proverbs 11:30 •
Seems very cut and dried as to how SoG and NJ work simultaneously together. ;D
Godspeed,
Mike
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Simultaneous has been defined in Redemption terms as "within a few milliseconds" (or maybe up to half a second on RTS). Basically enough time for your NJ to activate simultaneously with your SoG, and not enough time for your opponent to react with his own NJ. So even if SoG instantaneously rescued and was discarded before NJ activated (which I suppose you could argue, possibly successfully to some judges), NJ would still be played simultaneously with the SoG you just played, since it activated within a few milliseconds of your SoG.
Nowhere in your post do you seem to indicate that the reason they're allowed to be played simultaneously is due to the wording on NJ. You just seem to indicate that the reason is due to the fact they're played closely together. So sorry, I worded that poorly. Not exactly a disgreement, just an alternate reason.
Then again, I might just be trying to misconstrue your post beings I want it to be played differently.