Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Red Warrior on November 26, 2014, 12:40:12 PM
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Love (TEC)
"Heal and convert your character to a Hero of any brigade. Place on that Hero: While this Hero is in battle, protect characters not in battle from special abilities on evil cards, except banding."
The default target for Convert is for human characters, but is the healing contingent on the convert ability?
I understand how cost/benefit abilities work (do X to do Y), but I wasn't sure how to classify this (do X and Y). If my Trembling Demon were being discarded, could I play this card as a healing card (during discard phase) while the convert and place abilities misfire? I would presume this would not be the case... but I'm at a loss to explain why not. I'm probably just missing something obvious.
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IDK, I just know that demons can't be converted, so I think your right.
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Barring anything to the contrary, I'd say you could heal a demon, then fail to convert it.
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I would agree with ChristianSoldier. I think this falls under a "do as much as you can" scenario so you can heal but fizzle converting, or vice versa.
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So the place would fizzle as well since it is to be placed on the converted hero, yes?
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So the place would fizzle as well since it is to be placed on the converted hero, yes?
Yes, for it to be placed the character has to be a hero.
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I would actually say that this card can only target characters that can be healed, so the vice versa would not apply.
The card begins with "Heal..." and Heal has a definitive list of things that can be targeted by default:
A character is healable if it is about to be discarded, was discarded earlier in the same turn, is poisoned, or is diseased. If no more specific requirement is specified targets must be healable.
Characters discarded from hands* or decks cannot be targeted by heal cards.
Therefore, in order for you to be able to target a character with a heal ability, it must be healable by default. Love has no additional targets allowed, so the default applies. Therefore, saying "Heal and convert your character..." means that you must be able to target it as a healable character.
If you had a decreased/diseased/discarded demon, you could certainly play this card, as it is a legal target for the heal. It is protected by game rule from the convert, though, and therefore could not be Placed (as it must be placed on 'that Hero'), as pointed out above.
However, to be targeted by this card, I would say that the target must be healable.
EDIT: RULING CHANGED
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By that logic you could even place this one of your heroes.
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By that logic you could even place this one of your heroes.
Of course you could. You can even change the hero's brigade.
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Yes, as long as that hero is healable, it is a legal target. That was part of the intention of the card when it was designed, and why it was left as "character" instead of "evil character."
EDIT: RULING CHANGED
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After discussing legal targets, the Elders have determined that the original ruling given here is going to be reversed:
If played as a Heal, there must be a 'healable' target, as per the definition of Heal in the REG.
However, if played as a TC enhancement in your prep/discard phase, or as an enhancement played normally in battle, it may target a character that is not healable, and you 'do as much as you can' with the ability (even if they are not able to be healed).
Please post if you have any questions!
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After discussing legal targets, the Elders have determined that the original ruling given here is going to be reversed:
If played as a Heal, there must be a 'healable' target, as per the definition of Heal in the REG.
However, if played as a TC enhancement in your prep/discard phase, or as an enhancement played normally in battle, it may target a character that is not healable, and you 'do as much as you can' with the ability (even if they are not able to be healed).
Please post if you have any questions!
Can you change the brigade of a King of Tyrus to gray mid battle since demons don't convert? Can he also be healed and maintained as an evil character using Love similarly to Torment?
Can you (in example) change Thomas' brigade to any other single brigade color mid battle after playing a purple enhancement then play another color enhancement on him after Love?
Thank you for this clarification!
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Can you change the brigade of a King of Tyrus to gray mid battle since demons don't convert? Can he also be healed and maintained as an evil character using Love similarly to Torment?
Can you (in example) change Thomas' brigade to any other single brigade color mid battle after playing a purple enhancement then play another color enhancement on him after Love?
Thank you for this clarification!
1. Demons cannot be converted. Ever.
2. Yes, but the purple enhancement's numbers no longer count for the battle. The real question is, would an ongoing ability on a purple enhancement still work?
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For 1, I believe he was asking whether he could heal then change the brigade of the demon while still keeping it an EC, but Love specifies conversion to a hero. So even if he weren't a demon, it still wouldn't work.
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For 1, I believe he was asking whether he could heal then change the brigade of the demon while still keeping it an EC, but Love specifies conversion to a hero. So even if he weren't a demon, it still wouldn't work.
I knew what he was asking. But in order to switch brigades, and not just gain them, you need to be converted, see Gold Shield, and demons cannot be converted. So if a card like Gold shield that targets ECs instead of Heroes was printed it still wouldn't work.
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Praeceps is correct on all counts. Love does not say "convert your character to a brigade of your choice," it specifies "convert your character to a Hero of any brigade." While you may be 'doing as much as you can', it specifies that any brigade converted to must be a good brigade, so you can't change the evil brigade of an evil character without it converting to a hero (and, as noted, demons are a no-go for conversion).
Also correct that converting to a different brigade in battle means the numbers on played enhancements (unless they are weapons or placed) go away, since those enhancements are discarded (but not negated) due to there being no character of matching brigade in battle.
To answer Praeceps' question about the effect on enhancements, see above where the ability is not negated (as it was still played on a purple hero). Unless they were interrupted/suspended (since they could not reactivate per the rules of interrupt), their abilities still completed and/or persist through the end of phase (unless otherwise specified).
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Also note:
If you play Love in battle with the attempt to change brigades, it must be done during a stalemate situation. If you play it while you are losing, or during mutual destruction, your hero is a healable target - And so he will be returned to territory as part of the heal component.