Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: cookie monster on April 08, 2012, 07:10:39 PM
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Can I use Foreign Sword to put a hero that my opponent captured back on top of my deck, Foreign Sword says:
"Negate an opponent's evil or neutral card. If used by a Canaanite or Philistine, you may return that card to the top of owner's deck."
And being that lost souls are neutral, should this work?
Thank you,
God Bless!
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Lost Souls are indeed neutral, however, you cannot do this because it's not your opponent's card. Your opponent has control of it, but you own it, and both ownership and control is required to target a card that says "opponent's" or "yours".
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How do I own it? ???
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How do I own it? ???
I was referring to the captured hero, not Foreign Sword. If the card was in your deck when you started the game, you're considered the owner for all gameplay purposes.
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O,K that makes sence ::)
Thank you,
God Bless!
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Lost Souls are indeed neutral,
Lost souls are neutral but are captured heroes? Wouldn't they maintain alignment like a covenant/curse so that foreign sword can't target them?
If I have a curse in play I can target it with something like two bears to shuffle it away since it maintains alignment.
I'm not denying that a captured hero is a lost soul but wouldn't it be a lost soul and a hero in the same way that a covenant is an artifact and a covenant?
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If I have a curse in play I can target it with something like two bears to shuffle it away since it maintains alignment.
By the REG, they are treated as Lost Souls, which are neutral:
Only Heroes and Evil Characters can be captured. When a character is captured, all cards held by that character are discarded. It ceases to be a character and becomes a captured character instead (that is, Heroes become captured Heroes and Evil Characters become captured Evil Characters). Once the character becomes a captured character, it is moved to the location where it will be held captive. While held captive in a Land of Bondage, captured characters are treated as Lost Souls.
Only demons are considered evil cards while in LoB, and the only ones to keep their alignment:
Captured demons are not treated as lost souls. Rather, they are captured demons, which are still evil cards.
Hope that clarifies the issue.
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But by the Reg covenants used as arts are treated as arts (a neutral card) and as covenants (good cards) at the same time. So why should this rule be any different for captured heroes?
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But by the Reg covenants used as arts are treated as arts (a neutral card) and as covenants (good cards) at the same time. So why should this rule be any different for captured heroes?
Because the REG specifies in one case and not in the other.
They are not comparable situations, as they are both defined differently.
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Your argument that the REG specifies a definition in one case and not another does not warrant that it's not the same type of situation.
They both are cases of one card type that has an alignment being treated as another type that doesn't have an alignment, so why should they be treated differently?
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Your argument that the REG specifies a definition in one case and not another does not warrant that it's not the same type of situation.
They both are cases of one card type that has an alignment being treated as another type that doesn't have an alignment, so why should they be treated differently?
I honestly don't know what you're trying to get at. Are you saying that, even though they are both defined to be what I have described, you think they should be some other way because that makes more sense to you? :o
They are the way I described because that is how they are defined in the rules. You'd have to change the rules to change the situations. What exactly are you arguing? I honestly don't get it.
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I'm saying the rules seem to contradict each other.
We have two similar situations that play out in opposite ways.
Sorry should have clarified that.
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I'm saying the rules seem to contradict each other.
We have two similar situations that play out in opposite ways.
Sorry should have clarified that.
Ok, then I understand what you're trying to say.
However, you're talking about two different card types. It makes perfect sense for Covenants/Artifacts and Characters to have different rules to govern when they are good, evil, and neutral.
Covenants/Artifacts can't be Lost Souls, and Characters can't be artifacts, so completely different rules should apply to each.
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I understand that, from the standpoint that they are different card types therefore they should be ruled differently, that makes total sense.
My argument doesn't come from the standpoint of card types but rather from an alignment point. If Covenants can have good and neutral alignments at the same time why can't captured heroes?
After all Beheaded discards a captured hero, indicating that there is still some tie to the original alignment indicating that there is still some 'goodness' in the captured hero.
Anyway this is starting to become off topic. If we want to continue this we should probably start a new thread.
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I'm saying the rules seem to contradict each other.
We have two similar situations that play out in opposite ways.
Sorry should have clarified that.
I don't think the situations are that similar. In the case of Covenants/Curses, the cards are defined as both their alignment and neutral, and can be targeted as such. However, in the case of captured characters, the rules are clear that a "captured hero" is different than a hero, and the same goes for evil characters. Because of this change, it's reasonable to assume that the alignment also possibly changes. An evil character converted to a hero doesn't retain it's evil alignment, thus, a captured character doesn't necessarily have to retain it's alignment either. I do understand what you mean Wings, however, I ultimately disagree.
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I would think that covenants/curses are good/evil while they are artifacts because they are still covenants and curses (otherwise cards like covenant breakers or passover hymn couldn't discard them) and so since they are still covenants/curses, they retain their alignment. Heroes on the other hand when captured, cease to be heroes, but are now captured heroes, which are neutral.
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I would think that covenants/curses are good/evil while they are artifacts because they are still covenants and curses (otherwise cards like covenant breakers or passover hymn couldn't discard them) and so since they are still covenants/curses, they retain their alignment. Heroes on the other hand when captured, cease to be heroes, but are now captured heroes, which are neutral.
This is exactly what I was saying, but better worded. Thank you.
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I would think that covenants/curses are good/evil while they are artifacts because they are still covenants and curses (otherwise cards like covenant breakers or passover hymn couldn't discard them) and so since they are still covenants/curses, they retain their alignment. Heroes on the other hand when captured, cease to be heroes, but are now captured heroes, which are neutral.
Eloquently put, this makes sense.
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Hey,
I would think that covenants/curses are good/evil while they are artifacts because they are still covenants and curses (otherwise cards like covenant breakers or passover hymn couldn't discard them) and so since they are still covenants/curses, they retain their alignment. Heroes on the other hand when captured, cease to be heroes, but are now captured heroes, which are neutral.
This is correct.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly