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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: jtay on March 14, 2009, 06:28:34 PM

Title: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: jtay on March 14, 2009, 06:28:34 PM
When is this card supposed to be played?  Am I allowed to play it when my opponent is discarding me via a special ability?  Or do I have to have played it earlier in battle for it to work in that case?  The wording on it seems to resemble the wording on a healing card... is it played like a healing card, perhaps?


Lay Down Your Life -
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: If holder's Hero is about to be discarded, discard Hero. Holder may place another Hero of the same brigade from his territory into battle. All previous enhancements stay in play. • Errata: If a Hero is  discarded this battle, discard Hero to allow holder to place another Hero of the same brigade from his territory into battle. All previous enhancements stay in play.
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 14, 2009, 06:56:15 PM
From the REG under Instant Abilities -> Restore Life, Heal, or Release -> Clarifications

•      Cards like Lay Down Your Life that do not specifically mention the word “heal” in their special ability or card errata are not considered healing cards.  They do not actually heal a character, but rather replace a character being discarded.  They cannot be played outside of battle.  They must be played on a character in battle since they do not specifically mention the word “heal” and must be played prior to a discard because they do not interrupt.

Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: Arch Angel on March 14, 2009, 09:27:08 PM
Lay Down Your Life + Sampson's sacrifice ftw
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 14, 2009, 10:07:29 PM
That would be an interesting ruling. Is the part about "All previous enhancements stay in play," considered "clarifying text," therefore having no effect. Or does something else happen?
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: Prof Underwood on March 15, 2009, 04:55:34 PM
Although it is not a "healing" card, it seems that the intention of this card was that if a hero was being discarded for any reason (by the numbers, or special ability), then it would be discarded, but that it would be replaced by another hero and the battle would continue.

However, due to the wording on the card (and the "play as"), there is no "interrupt".  Therefore, unless the "play as" is changed to include an interrupt, I don't think it would work if a hero was being discarded by special ability (as they would have no ability to play this enhancement).
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 15, 2009, 05:27:54 PM
But the wording seems to be ongoing so if you play it previously to it...
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 15, 2009, 06:06:44 PM
I agree with RR that LDYL could be played earlier in the battle. The SA is triggered. The last sentence in the REG quote I gave earlier seems to verify this.
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on March 15, 2009, 06:14:39 PM
Hence this post:

Lay Down Your Life + Sampson's sacrifice ftw
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 15, 2009, 06:16:02 PM
We were trying to validate that post to the Professor.
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: lightningninja on March 15, 2009, 07:30:18 PM
Man I love Ehud!  ;D
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: Prof Underwood on March 15, 2009, 10:21:49 PM
We were trying to validate that post to the Professor.
I actually already agree with you that if it is played earlier in battle, then it would still work if the hero was later discarded by special ability.

I was just pointing out that for the card to work as apparently intended, it would need an "interrupt the battle" added to the play as (in the hopes that someone might notice and actually do that) :)
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: MichaelHue on March 15, 2009, 10:57:11 PM
Wait, so my Lay Down Your Life + Samson's Sacrifice T2 deck idea would have actually worked?!  Back when I first asked about it I was told it didn't...
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 16, 2009, 03:49:21 PM
Wait, so my Lay Down Your Life + Samson's Sacrifice T2 deck idea would have actually worked?!  Back when I first asked about it I was told it didn't...

What was the reason given for it not working? There may be more to the question than we are seeing.
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: MichaelHue on March 17, 2009, 07:38:26 AM
Wait, so my Lay Down Your Life + Samson's Sacrifice T2 deck idea would have actually worked?!  Back when I first asked about it I was told it didn't...

What was the reason given for it not working? There may be more to the question than we are seeing.
I was told that Lay Down Your Life was not treated as a healing card, and as such must be played IN BATTLE and only functioned when the hero was discarded by numbers, because losing by the numbers is the only situation you are "being discarded" and can play it without interrupting.
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: Arch Angel on March 17, 2009, 11:26:05 AM
I was told that Lay Down Your Life was not treated as a healing card, and as such must be played IN BATTLE and only functioned when the hero was discarded by numbers, because losing by the numbers is the only situation you are "being discarded" and can play it without interrupting.
That's correct, which is why you need to play LDYL first, so that the ability is already in play and doesn't need to interrupt anything.
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: SJSharks on March 17, 2009, 12:58:13 PM
Would this be the same with Satan’s Folly?
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: MichaelHue on March 17, 2009, 09:49:06 PM
I was told that Lay Down Your Life was not treated as a healing card, and as such must be played IN BATTLE and only functioned when the hero was discarded by numbers, because losing by the numbers is the only situation you are "being discarded" and can play it without interrupting.
That's correct, which is why you need to play LDYL first, so that the ability is already in play and doesn't need to interrupt anything.
Except that it was also ruled that Lay Down Your Life can only be played when your hero is "being discarded" and as it can't interrupt, it must be played while losing by the numbers.  As far as I know it's not an ongoing ability, but that may be ruled differently now.
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: TimMierz on March 17, 2009, 11:56:33 PM
Except that it was also ruled that Lay Down Your Life can only be played when your hero is "being discarded" and as it can't interrupt, it must be played while losing by the numbers.  As far as I know it's not an ongoing ability, but that may be ruled differently now.

"There is no distinction between “instantly discarded”, “being discarded”, and “about to be discarded.”"
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: MichaelHue on March 18, 2009, 08:15:14 AM
Except that it was also ruled that Lay Down Your Life can only be played when your hero is "being discarded" and as it can't interrupt, it must be played while losing by the numbers.  As far as I know it's not an ongoing ability, but that may be ruled differently now.

"There is no distinction between “instantly discarded”, “being discarded”, and “about to be discarded.”"
I don't understand what you're trying to say.  Do you mean that I should be able to play Lay Down Your Life even when I'm being discarded by a special ability without interrupting, because "instantly discarded" is the same as "about to be discarded"?
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: Scottie_ffgamer on March 19, 2009, 12:07:09 AM
You can't play Lay Down Your Life at this moment after you are being discarded by a SA.  You'd have to either being discarded by #s and play it, or play it before a discard SA is played on your character.  I agree, however, that it should be changed to play as an interrupt.
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: SJSharks on March 19, 2009, 12:19:33 AM
Why isn't anyone answering my question?  It seems from this discussion that Satan's Folly would be played the same way as Lay Down Your Life, but I have had it played against me as a healing card out of battle, so I would like to know the ruling on this as well.
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: The Schaef on March 19, 2009, 06:54:16 AM
Stan's Folly definitely cannot be played outside of battle.
Title: Re: Lay Down Your Life
Post by: Bryon on March 20, 2009, 02:03:02 PM
Schaef is correct, and the same applies to Lay Down Your Life.  You must play the card according to the rules of initiative, just like any other enhancement that is not heal or set aside or weapon.

If you play LDYL first, then SS will work with it.
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