Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: stefferweffer on November 11, 2009, 08:19:18 AM
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There is a discussion under "Card play" that I perhaps mistakenly chimed in on regarding how to defeat Abom decks. Even though I've never faced one, I suggested that Covenant of Noah would work. Some have responded that this would only work for one turn? Please advise how to use the two cards I mention here, because I always strive to have them in my Garden Tomb offense.
Covenant of Noah - "Use as an enhancement or an artifact (I'd be using it as an artifact). Interrupt and Prevent (isn't this the definition of negate) one evil enhancement. Discard after use." Doesn't the "prevent" part mean that even though its not discarded, its special ability has been prevented? Why would this only be for one turn?
King Hezekiah - "You may discard and evil enhancement in your territory." Wouldn't this be a sufficient way to get rid of cards like Abom or Image of Jealousy, Spreading Mildew, Set Fire, etc?
Thanks for your help in understanding these cards.
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Abilities only ever last for one phase unless stated otherwise. Covenant of Noah does not state otherwise. As for King Hezekiah, yes, that is the kind of thing he was made for.
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I'm sorry, but this does not seem to make sense. I thought that negate (interrupt and prevent) meant that you treat that card as if it was never played. Do you know how many other enhancements do not specify that they are only for one turn? What about all the "place" cards that don't specify how many turns, yet we clearly know it means "until removed or negated". Do we play all capture card enhancement effects for only one turn, then the EC or hero returns?
In fact, Abom itself doesn't specify that its effects last only one phase/turn, but we clearly know that to be the case.
Now I'm more confused than ever. I thought the whole point of a card like Covenant of Noah was to prevent (STOP) evil enhancements, regardless of where they are. If its only main use is during a battle then its value sure dropped a lot in my book.
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I'm sorry, but this does not seem to make sense. I thought that negate (interrupt and prevent) meant that you treat that card as if it was never played.
Negating and discarding are two different things. Even though something is negated it is still there just with no ability.
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I agree (keeping in mind numbers are now ignored too). But what says that it is only negated for one turn?
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I agree (keeping in mind numbers are now ignored too). But what says that it is only negated for one turn?
Gabe's post on the other thread reminded me about the correct ruling for this. :doh:
Place enhancements if negated in the phase it was placed in stop altogether. However, place enhancements become CBN after the phase it was placed in.
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What about all the "place" cards that don't specify how many turns, yet we clearly know it means "until removed or negated".
That's where you're wrong. As Cameron said, enhancements placed in a different phase cannot be negated. If Covenant with Noah said "interrupt and discard," then the evil enhancement would be discarded, but its effect will stay until next phase. Simply negating it does nothing.
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Thanks for all your help everyone. Then let me ask this (hopefully) last question about Covenant with Noah, concerning when exactly I can instantly use its ability, because I would still like to use it to protect my fortresses.
IF I have it as my activated artifact, whether it is my turn or not, and someone plays something like Abomination of Desolation or Spreading Mildew or Image of Jealousy, wehter in battle or out of battle (i.e. with High Places), then can I interrupt it with this artifact to permanently prevent that from happening? If so, I know that it would make Cov with Noah a DON magnet, but at least they'd have to do something with my Cov with Noah before placing their evil enhancement in my territory.
In short, if Cov with Noah is my active artifact, I can choose when I use it right, even if its not my turn?
Thanks again.
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I do believe you can use CwN at any time. So if you used it to stop a place enhancement in the phase it was played, you could stop it.
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In short, if Cov with Noah is my active artifact, I can choose when I use it right, even if its not my turn?
This is correct. You can use CwN to negate a placed enhancement during the phase it was played, in which case the "place" ability is negated, so the enhancement would be discarded if played outside of battle.
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That's why I love CoN