Yes, JT is a protect ability now.
How is any judge who didn't read this (or any related thread) on the board supposed to know which (if any) of these are the case (and hence have the capability of ruling correctly)?
Quote from: MJBHow is any judge who didn't read this (or any related thread) on the board supposed to know which (if any) of these are the case (and hence have the capability of ruling correctly)?
I would not expect a judge to know every single REG entry by heart, but if it comes up during a game, the REG is correct so a judge would simply need to have access to the current REG to rule on this particular card. Also, "restrict" will be added as a definition in the new REG.Jerusalem Tower (Pa)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No opponent may remove a card from holder's draw pile. Draw pile may still be searched and/or shuffled. • Play As: Restrict opponents' from removing cards from holder’s deck. Deck may still be searched, revealed, and/or shuffled. • Identifiers: Play to territory. • Verse: Nehemiah 12:38 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Rare)
petitions for equal wording and playability stance for Hezekiah's Signet Ring...
Jerusalem Tower (Pa)
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• Play As: Restrict opponents' from removing cards from holder’s deck.
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Especially given that a protect works by making a card or cards untargettable. I am not sure how "Restrict opponents'..." has anything to do with effecting a card. It sounds more like you are keeping your opponent from doing something (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prevent).Quote from: REGJerusalem Tower (Pa)
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• Play As: Restrict opponents' from removing cards from holder’s deck.
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This is most certainly not your grandfathers' english grammar. :P
Cute, but even a prevent ability only affects SAs on cards.It prevents your opponents' special abilities from removing cards from your deck
Cute, but even a prevent ability only affects SAs on cards.It prevents your opponents' special abilities from removing cards from your deck
I think the elders need to find out whether this was indeed a misprint and "cards" was supposed to be typed next to "opponents'."And once you add the word "cards" the Play As is still phrased exactly as a prevent ability.
I think the elders need to find out whether this was indeed a misprint and "cards" was supposed to be typed next to "opponents'."And once you add the word "cards" the Play As is still phrased exactly as a prevent ability.
So--getting back to my original point--after reading the REG (which I did prior to my first question), even an experienced judge has absolutely no chance of ruling on ReyZen's question correctly unless they read this (and possibly related) threads.
This is a problem.
re·strict (ri strikt′)Cute, but even a prevent ability only affects SAs on cards.It prevents your opponents' special abilities from removing cards from your deck
And right now it restricts your opponents' special abilities from removing cards from your deck, so your point is moot.
Poop sounds alot like scoop, but they don't do the same thing.Nominated for awesome quotes. ;D
Poop sounds alot like scoop, but they don't do the same thing.I agree with LN, this was quoteworthy (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12349.msg392866#msg392866) :)
Poop sounds alot like scoop, but they don't do the same thing.Too bad we're talking about definitions
Poop sounds alot like scoop, but they don't do the same thing.Too bad we're talking about definitions
OKToo bad we're talking about definitions
We were? Oh, my apologies. Please quote me the REG definition of "Restrict" used for Redemption game play purposes and I'll be happy to continue talking.
Also, "restrict" will be added as a definition in the new REG.Oops, it appears that restrict does not have a definition in the current REG.
Would any of the PTB care to comment on how a host can do an acceptable job of judging without spending hours on the boardsJTower is currently ruled as a "protect" ability. That announcement was made a long time ago, and a fairly big deal was made about it, so if people hang out on the boards even fairly regularly, they probably heard about it. This whole discussion of it being a "restrict" and whatever that means is really irrelevant until the new REG comes out, and we all know when that is going to be. So don't worry about it.
Citation neededWould any of the PTB care to comment on how a host can do an acceptable job of judging without spending hours on the boardsJTower is currently ruled as a "protect" ability. That announcement was made a long time ago, and a fairly big deal was made about it, so if people hang out on the boards even fairly regularly, they probably heard about it. This whole discussion of it being a "restrict" and whatever that means is really irrelevant until the new REG comes out, and we all know when that is going to be. So don't worry about it.
Given that JSB's definition is a (more-or-less) standard definition of the word that is what a judge would have to use--isn't it?
As for judges who don't spend a lot of time here on the forum, they aren't the people who host the major tournaments, and it really won't matter much if someone rules incorrectly about JTower at a local tourney somewhere.
There's already a single thread that compiles all the REG changes that need to be made, so all a host needs to do is read the REG and check 1 thread. Is that too much to ask?
I agree that the outdatedness of the REG is frustrating, but lets not make this even more of a big deal than it needs to be.
Citation neededWould any of the PTB care to comment on how a host can do an acceptable job of judging without spending hours on the boardsJTower is currently ruled as a "protect" ability. That announcement was made a long time ago, and a fairly big deal was made about it, so if people hang out on the boards even fairly regularly, they probably heard about it. This whole discussion of it being a "restrict" and whatever that means is really irrelevant until the new REG comes out, and we all know when that is going to be. So don't worry about it.
I have tried to be less cynical of late, but if the elders are going to pass off a horrendously erroneous REG with complacency, then I feel I have the right to vocalize my frustration.
Realistically, anyone who has a chance at winning a regional or national level tournament would HAVE to be significantly a part of the broader Redemption community. There's no way that Joe Smith can "perfect his deck" in a local environment ONLY and have any chance of success at the top levels. He just wouldn't have been exposed to enough varieties of decks and strategies. So 1 of 2 things will happen:it really won't matter much if someone rules incorrectly about JTower at a local tourney somewhere.I completely disagree with this conclusion. If a local player uses (and perfects) the same deck all year, then brings it to a state tournament and is suddenly told that his cards don't do what he thought they did, that player is now at a disadvantage with no time to compensate.
Gabe said it here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=22912.msg359165#msg359165) and here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=23137.msg364253#msg364253) in August.JTower is currently ruled as a "protect" ability.Citation needed
(Also no one has explained why it was changed)Bryon explained that here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=21814.msg343201#msg343201) back in June.
Realistically, anyone who has a chance at winning a regional or national level tournament would HAVE to be significantly a part of the broader Redemption community. There's no way that Joe Smith can "perfect his deck" in a local environment ONLY and have any chance of success at the top levels. He just wouldn't have been exposed to enough varieties of decks and strategies. So 1 of 2 things will happen:it really won't matter much if someone rules incorrectly about JTower at a local tourney somewhere.I completely disagree with this conclusion. If a local player uses (and perfects) the same deck all year, then brings it to a state tournament and is suddenly told that his cards don't do what he thought they did, that player is now at a disadvantage with no time to compensate.
1 - Joe Smith connects here on the forum with the broader community, becomes and elite player, and along the way learns that JTower is a protect.
2 - Joe Smith dominates locally, and then loses big at the Regional tournament for a bunch of bigger reasons than just his misunderstanding of JTower.
The majority of the elders have as much control over getting the REG updated as you do. So what would you like us to do?
1 - Joe Smith connects here on the forum with the broader community, becomes and elite player, and along the way learns that JTower is a protect.
The majority of the elders have as much control over getting the REG updated as you do. So what would you like us to do?I have two suggestions...
Thank you for answering my question. I now understand that a requirement to serve as a host is to spend X hours a week reading these boards.Would any of the PTB care to comment on how a host can do an acceptable job of judging without spending hours on the boards
As for judges who don't spend a lot of time here on the forum, they aren't the people who host the major tournaments, and it really won't matter much if someone rules incorrectly about JTower at a local tourney somewhere.
I agree that the outdatedness of the REG is frustrating, but lets not make this even more of a big deal than it needs to be. There's already a single thread that compiles all the REG changes that need to be made, so all a host needs to do is read the REG and check 1 thread. Is that too much to ask?Which thread is that? I know it's not the "REG Updates" thread, the "OFFICIAL New Rulings Announcement Thread" or the "OFFICIAL REG Corrections" thread, because none of them mention that Jersualem Tower is a protect--which overturned half a decade or more of established rulings. I did check the REG before posting initially, but the fact is (as Bryon noted in his original announcement) that both JT's SA and Play As in the REG are still worded as a prevent so it didn't really help me.
Wait I am Holy and Chamber of Angels doesn't work? Darn...It's never worked, we just didn't know that
Interesting that I took 3rd at Nationals with a deck built around an illegal combo.
I specifically said "state" for a reason.I agree that this could happen at a "state" level tourney, because depending on the state, that competition might not be much different than a local or district tourney. However, I repeat that knowing all the nuance rulings like JTower is not going to be what determines whether someone wins at the Regional or National level, and that is what determines the RNRS champions and the National champions, so really all other tourneys won't make that big of a difference.
Let the real PtB's know that the current system is not working.Done already.
Which thread is that? I know it's not the "REG Updates" thread, the "OFFICIAL New Rulings Announcement Thread" or the "OFFICIAL REG Corrections" thread, because none of them mention that Jersualem Tower is a protectActually if that ruling were made more recently it would be in the OFFICIAL New Rulings Announcement Thread. The problem is that the JTower ruling was made just before Nats, and announced just after Nats, and the ONRAT wasn't created until around Thanksgiving. I just asked Guardian to add the JTower ruling to clear this up, but going forward any other big ruling changes should be easily found there.
Considering how similarly Hezzy's Ring and JT are worded, it seems illogical to treat them differently.This is currently being discussed by the Elders.
Let the real PtB's know that the current system is not working.Done already.
As far as I know, there is only one person who can edit the REG: Mike Berkenpas.
If anyone knows of a better solution I'm open to suggestions.Can there be a single board that only people appointed by the PtB can post to that has threads that look something like this.
At some time in the past, probably long before one of the "great purges", Rob stated that the REG is maintained through some software that is very costly. He's only purchased one license for software and that has been supplied to Mike. That's why Mike is the only person who has access to update the REG.
If anyone knows of a better solution I'm open to suggestions.