Author Topic: Job and Dust and Ashes  (Read 5516 times)

Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Job and Dust and Ashes
« on: September 08, 2010, 09:28:55 AM »
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I have Dust and Ashes out and Job is set-aside and discarded by Darius Decree, does he go to Dust and Ashes? What if he was discarded from my hand or deck?

Dust and Ashes: When you play this card, search discard pile for Job. If your Job is harmed or defeated by an opponent, you may place him here instead. Each upkeep, return contents to hand. Cannot be negated.

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2010, 09:46:42 AM »
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I've been told yes, based on the same logic that applies with I am Holy + Chamber of Angels.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2010, 10:42:45 AM »
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I have Dust and Ashes out and Job is set-aside and discarded by Darius Decree, does he go to Dust and Ashes? What if he was discarded from my hand or deck?

Dust and Ashes: When you play this card, search discard pile for Job. If your Job is harmed or defeated by an opponent, you may place him here instead. Each upkeep, return contents to hand. Cannot be negated.

Yes. Your Job is your Job no matter where he is.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2010, 10:48:38 AM »
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Yes. Your Job is your Job no matter where he is.
Unless your job gets outsourced to India, in which case it is now Ravi's job :)

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2010, 10:58:34 AM »
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I lol'd.

Offline MrMiYoda

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2010, 03:48:20 PM »
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I have revisited this topic.

With Dust and Ashes in play, do we mean to say that Job can never be taken out of the game nor defeated by means other negating his SA, unless Dust and Ashes is discarded?  Moreover, if Dust and Ashes is discarded while Job is in it, does Job get discarded since the targeted card for discard is Dust and Ashes and not him?

Thinktank?
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2010, 04:03:38 PM »
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I have revisited this topic.

With Dust and Ashes in play, do we mean to say that Job can never be taken out of the game nor defeated by means other negating his SA, unless Dust and Ashes is discarded?  Moreover, if Dust and Ashes is discarded while Job is in it, does Job get discarded since the targeted card for discard is Dust and Ashes and not him?

Thinktank?

If D&A is in active (it's in set-aside area, not in play) Job can be defeated, but no matter what happens to him, as long as you control and own him, and your opponent is the one who affects him, he will always be able to go back to D&A.

Currently, there is only one way to get rid of D&A, and that is Set Fire. With Set Fire, you get to choose which OT Fortress/Site to discard, and you also get to choose in what order events occurring in your upkeep phase occur. Thus, you can return Job to your hand before discarding D&A. If you for some reason don't want to, then Job would be discarded.

If in the future another card can discard D&A, then Job would follow it to the discard if he was in it when it happened.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 04:05:47 PM »
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A good Gold Shield would effectively do it as well.

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 04:16:11 PM »
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wouldnt that be harm?
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Warrior_Monk

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2010, 04:23:11 PM »
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wouldnt that be harm?
Only if it's on an evil character.

Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2010, 04:30:34 PM »
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I think its harm.

Warrior_Monk

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2010, 04:36:28 PM »
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If it's harm, then it can't carry over it's ability when converted. It does, so it must not be harm.

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2010, 04:53:24 PM »
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ah, missed the 'good'.
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2010, 04:59:51 PM »
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How would that help? He gets reset when he returns to hand...
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2010, 05:08:30 PM »
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gold shield, chump block with red dragon?
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2010, 05:15:03 PM »
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Harm is something affecting you from a different alignment. Gold Shield is evil. Job is good. It is affecting him.

If converting him to black is harmful but making him white isn't, you'll hear from my lawyer.

Warrior_Monk

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2010, 05:16:45 PM »
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A good Gold Shield would effectively do it as well.

gold shield, chump block with red dragon?
exactly.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2010, 09:43:42 PM »
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According to the REG:

Defeat

Defeat is caused when a character’s toughness is less than or equal to an opposing character’s strength. A defeat also occurs when a character is stopped from achieving his goal in battle. A Hero(es) is defeated when the Hero(es) in battle are discarded, repelled or otherwise fails to make a successful rescue such as in a stalemate. The Evil Character(s) is defeated when the Evil Character(s) in battle are discarded, ignored or otherwise fails to stop the Hero from making a successful rescue such as in a mutual destruction by numbers.

So if you block my gold Job (converted by Gold Shield) with Red Dragon, it'll be a stalemate, then Job is defeated, goes to D&A, goes to my hand, and comes back as blue Job. So Gold Shield only stalls him for one extra turn.

Probably the best way to get rid of Job is to band to him, then during the battle, negate his ability and capture/discard him. While he is under your control, your opponent's D&A can't save him. It's not exactly easy, but it can be accomplished by using Gathering on The Strong Angel or Captain, banding to Job, then using CM, Writ, or Charms. Obviously, a good Job deck has ways to get around that, but that's pretty much your only option when it comes to getting rid of him permanently.
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Offline fyero

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2010, 10:01:55 PM »
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not if your opponent does anything to harm, i would think it would only be if u used like wrath of satan then job would be discarderd? additionally can u choose to "play" dust and ashes at any tiime as to search your discard for job after dust and ashes has already been out a turn
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2010, 11:10:05 PM »
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not if your opponent does anything to harm, i would think it would only be if u used like wrath of satan then job would be discarderd? additionally can u choose to "play" dust and ashes at any tiime as to search your discard for job after dust and ashes has already been out a turn

If you use Wrath of Satan, your Job would be discarded (assuming he wasn't somehow otherwise protected) since D&A only saves him from your opponents. You can only search d/c pile once for Job, and that is when you first play D&A, as that part of the ability is a separate, instant ability.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2010, 12:18:11 AM »
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If you manage to get Persian Presidents into battle while Job is recovering in DNA, DNA won't be able to save him. DD will also Discard him from DNA and DNA won't be able to get him back.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2010, 12:44:34 AM »
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If you manage to get Persian Presidents into battle while Job is recovering in DNA, DNA won't be able to save him. DD will also Discard him from DNA and DNA won't be able to get him back.

I'm fairly certain that if Job is affected while he is in D&A, you would just place him back in it (just like if you use DD against Angels in Chamber). That's how I would rule it.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2010, 11:10:21 AM »
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Nope. Job isn't in play when he's in DNA, so DNA doesn't target him. DD is also a good way to kill Angels if they rely on Chamber and no CoF.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2010, 11:22:24 AM »
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Then chamber and IaH really doesn't work, because the angels you discard are in your hand, not in play.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Job and Dust and Ashes
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2010, 11:27:22 AM »
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Then chamber and IaH really doesn't work, because the angels you discard are in your hand, not in play.

Right. I think when a card says "your X" it refers to any X no matter where it is.
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