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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Aelec Enitnel on August 04, 2011, 07:04:18 PM

Title: James son Alphie
Post by: Aelec Enitnel on August 04, 2011, 07:04:18 PM
Special Ability: Negate special abilities on Evil Characters (and weapons) with toughness X or less. May band to Thaddeus.

Do the parentheses have any meaning?
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: The M on August 04, 2011, 07:05:42 PM
Maybe it means separately and not the combined toughness, but I have no clue.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: SomeKittens on August 04, 2011, 07:06:55 PM
It means that weapons of toughness X or less are negated.  Nothing more.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: Master KChief on August 04, 2011, 07:08:00 PM
yeah, negates weapons. :)

my question is the negate applied seperately to each term or is weapons under the umbrella of ec's (negate sa's on ec's with toughness X or less, negate sa's on weapons with toughness X or less OR negate sa's on ec's with toughness X or less and the weapons on those ec's as well).
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: SomeKittens on August 04, 2011, 07:11:24 PM
This was asked earlier, it is separate.  If I've got 5 Disciples out, Philly horses are negated, but Garrison isn't.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: Master KChief on August 04, 2011, 07:14:49 PM
do you have a link to that thread? im surprised i never saw that nor questioned it myself.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: SomeKittens on August 04, 2011, 08:27:20 PM
No, sorry.  Honestly, it'd be quicker to get an Elder to chime in here instead of looking for it.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: Professoralstad on August 04, 2011, 10:38:24 PM
SK is correct. The parentheses are necessary to avoid the interpretation that he negates all EC's regardless of X, but only weapons with toughness X or less.

James negates EC's with toughness less than X, and weapons with toughness less than X.

Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: CJSports on August 05, 2011, 08:02:54 AM
Was this the same sourta problem with Job with his discard and capture abilities.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: SomeKittens on August 05, 2011, 11:57:02 AM
Job specifically says "abilities"
Job (Pi)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 6 / 12 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect Job from discard and capture abilities. • Play As: Protect Job from discard abilities and capture abilities. • Identifiers: OT Male Human • Verse: Job 2:3 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: browarod on August 05, 2011, 10:00:14 PM
Job specifically says "abilities"
Job (Pi)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 6 / 12 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect Job from discard and capture abilities. • Play As: Protect Job from discard abilities and capture abilities. • Identifiers: OT Male Human • Verse: Job 2:3 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)
Actually, that's the play as, which is incorrect. Job just says "discard" so it has been ruled that he's protected from game rule discards as well as abilities.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: SomeKittens on August 05, 2011, 10:38:38 PM
*sigh*  Why do I even post anymore?
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: Master KChief on August 05, 2011, 10:46:47 PM
well that way when you do post we know to do the exact opposite for the right answer. ;) just kidding, just kidding.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: browarod on August 05, 2011, 11:11:33 PM
*sigh*  Why do I even post anymore?
I'm wrong all the time, I just roll with the punches and get confidence boosts from the "Browarod is correct" quotes. :D

LOL @ MKChief. You're so mean. ;)
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: EmJayBee83 on August 06, 2011, 01:45:21 AM
*sigh*  Why do I even post anymore?
For the amusement of others?
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: Josh on August 06, 2011, 08:19:54 AM
Job specifically says "abilities"
Job (Pi)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 6 / 12 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect Job from discard and capture abilities. • Play As: Protect Job from discard abilities and capture abilities. • Identifiers: OT Male Human • Verse: Job 2:3 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)
Actually, that's the play as, which is incorrect. Job just says "discard" so it has been ruled that he's protected from game rule discards as well as abilities.
Actually, the Elders took this exact question to Rob, and he ruled that Job is not protected from discard by numbers.  http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/job-question/msg397021/#msg397021 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/job-question/msg397021/#msg397021)
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 06, 2011, 10:57:22 AM
That is outdated.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: Professoralstad on August 06, 2011, 01:42:50 PM
That is outdated.

As far as I know, the thread jmhartz linked to is the most current ruling.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: Gabe on August 06, 2011, 09:15:26 PM
That is outdated.

Pol is mistaken in this instance. Rob's ruling from earlier this year stands and is not expected to change.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: browarod on August 06, 2011, 09:27:27 PM
Well, I sit corrected yet again. Looks like I'm pulling "SomeKittens" left and right, lol.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: SomeKittens on August 06, 2011, 09:38:51 PM
Well, I sit corrected yet again. Looks like I'm pulling "SomeKittens" left and right, lol.
Woohoo!  I have a reputation!
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: browarod on August 06, 2011, 09:40:31 PM
This does bring up another question, though. Since apparently the lack of "abilities" after discard doesn't necessarily mean anything in the Priests set, does that mean High Priest's Palace does NOT protect from discard by game rule either? Because if it does then that would be a glaring inconsistency.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: SomeKittens on August 06, 2011, 09:47:14 PM
(let's try and make this 2-1...)  Since Job says "capture abilities" the word abilities applies to all protects on the card (a la Reach of Desperation's "may" applying individually to all three abilities).  HPP doesn't say abilities. 
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 07, 2011, 09:27:22 PM
Wait, what? So protection doesn't protect from numbers now? I thought there was just a big to-do about the official ruling being the opposite...
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: YourMathTeacher on August 07, 2011, 10:30:47 PM
Wait, what? So protection doesn't protect from numbers now? I thought there was just a big to-do about the official ruling being the opposite...

What they are saying is that "protected from discard abilities" does not protect from the numbers, but "protect from discard" does. Job is the former.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: SomeKittens on August 08, 2011, 09:12:05 AM
Wait, what? So protection doesn't protect from numbers now? I thought there was just a big to-do about the official ruling being the opposite...
What made you come to that conclusion?  No one here claimed it to be so, Browarod asked a question because he was confused.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 08, 2011, 09:28:35 AM
Wait, what? So protection doesn't protect from numbers now? I thought there was just a big to-do about the official ruling being the opposite...

What they are saying is that "protected from discard abilities" does not protect from the numbers, but "protect from discard" does. Job is the former.
Ahh, I missed what point the discussion was turning on. Carry on!
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: browarod on August 08, 2011, 09:32:54 AM
(let's try and make this 2-1...)  Since Job says "capture abilities" the word abilities applies to all protects on the card (a la Reach of Desperation's "may" applying individually to all three abilities).  HPP doesn't say abilities. 
"May" has specifically been ruled to apply to all abilities listed with an "and", does this mean that "abilities" is considered to have a similar, overarching ruling? I wasn't aware that it did, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: SomeKittens on August 08, 2011, 09:43:30 AM
That was my guess, it was what made sense to me.
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: spicynumber1 on August 08, 2011, 02:25:03 PM
Job specifically says "abilities"
Job (Pi)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 6 / 12 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect Job from discard and capture abilities. • Play As: Protect Job from discard abilities and capture abilities. • Identifiers: OT Male Human • Verse: Job 2:3 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)
Actually, that's the play as, which is incorrect. Job just says "discard" so it has been ruled that he's protected from game rule discards as well as abilities.

Woah, so Job is protected from the numbers?
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: YourMathTeacher on August 08, 2011, 04:12:43 PM
Woah, so Job is protected from the numbers?

No he is not:

Job specifically says "abilities"
Job (Pi)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 6 / 12 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect Job from discard and capture abilities. • Play As: Protect Job from discard abilities and capture abilities. • Identifiers: OT Male Human • Verse: Job 2:3 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)
Actually, that's the play as, which is incorrect. Job just says "discard" so it has been ruled that he's protected from game rule discards as well as abilities.
Actually, the Elders took this exact question to Rob, and he ruled that Job is not protected from discard by numbers.  http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/job-question/msg397021/#msg397021 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/job-question/msg397021/#msg397021)
Title: Re: James son Alphie
Post by: SomeKittens on August 08, 2011, 04:21:20 PM
Job specifically says "abilities"
Job (Pi)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 6 / 12 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect Job from discard and capture abilities. • Play As: Protect Job from discard abilities and capture abilities. • Identifiers: OT Male Human • Verse: Job 2:3 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)
Actually, that's the play as, which is incorrect. Job just says "discard" so it has been ruled that he's protected from game rule discards as well as abilities.

Woah, so Job is protected from the numbers?
Only if you don't read the rest of the thread.
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