Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Warrior_Monk on July 15, 2014, 07:25:15 PM
-
So ever since Justin suggested Musicians to me, I started giving them a closer look, and I almost like them. It'd be great if Isaiah was a musician though. So I looked back to the previous thread, where I found this post by Tim (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/simeon-and-isaiah-should-be-musicians/25/) which says that if a character wrote a song, they were a musician.
The REG says a character is a musician if they wrote a song. What does it mean to write a song? When the REG and the Elders use that phrase they mean that the individual created a song with intention for future use. Therefore spontaneous worship in the form of song does not constitute writing a song. Also speaking or writing words that are later turned into a song does not constitute writing a song.
...Isaiah 5 is the one place where a form of the verb sing shows up with regard to the characters in question but there is no conclusive evidence in that passage that the song was intended for future use.
But how does Deborah and Barak fit into this definition? They sang a song together, which Deborah presumably wrote, but was it really meant for future use? The song itself references singers Deborah and Barak, as though they're singing to each other too. It seems like a spontaneous worship that the two of them sang, and it was meant for the two of them.
How is that different than the song that Isaiah sang (and presumably wrote)?
Song of Deborah is Judges 5 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges+5), Song of Isaiah is Isaiah 5 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+5).
Using NIV because Tim said so. It just seems like a top down ruling. Either Deborah and Barak should not be musicians or Isaiah should be, but there's a precedent for Isaiah being a musician (whereas Simeon doesn't have one)
-
:bump:
Not going to let this one die guys.
-
Let me throw some oil on the fire...
While they were not musicians, I believe the singers of the songs that have been passed down through the centuries and sung in the church across denominational lines, and which are Redemption cards as well, should also be classified as musicians. These would be:
Mary (Magnificat)
Zechariah (Benedictus)
Simeon (Nunc Dimittis)
and if they ever make a Luke 2 angel/angelic hosts (Gloria)
This would also solve the problem of no NT musicians.
And it has about as much chance of ever happening as I have of winning an event at Nationals. :)
-
If you read previous threads, you can see why the hymn writers are not considered musician, and by the Redemption definition it seems legit.
However, Isaiah is in a different category IMO.
-
And it has about as much chance of ever happening as I have of winning an event at Nationals. :)
Hey, better you than Westy.
-
I know the previous discussion-I was involved in it. (I argued for the inclusion of Miriam, Moses, Deborah, and Barak.) But one can dream...
-
How is that different than the song that Isaiah sang (and presumably wrote)?
Song of Deborah is Judges 5 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges+5), Song of Isaiah is Isaiah 5 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+5).
Isaiah 5:31*: Arrangement trad. Lyrics J. Fred Coots. CCLI #17.
*Although, to be fair, my study Bible has a foot note saying that verse 31 is not found in the earliest versions of Isaiah.
-
:bump:
Not going to let this one die guys.
-
:bump:
Not going to let this one die guys.
Is that like a super bump?
-
Bump because Chenaniah should be better than he already is.
-
I'm all for it.