Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Noah on September 01, 2011, 09:01:10 PM
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Does Ezekiel's SA nagate King Omri's ability to put a Samaria site in play?
Ezekiel (FF2)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Teal/Green • Ability: 7 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate play abilities. Search discard pile for a good Ezekiel card and place it beneath deck. Good Ezekiel cards cannot be negated. • Play As: Negate play [an enhancement] abilities. Search discard pile for a good Ezekiel card and place it beneath deck. Good Ezekiel cards cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Prophet, Solomon's Temple Priest • Verse: Ezekiel 1:3 • Availability: Faith of our Fathers Extended booster packs (None)
King Omri (Ki)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 6 / 7 • Class: None • Special Ability: Search your draw pile for one Samaria Site and put in play. Land Purchase cannot be negated. • Play As: Search your deck for one Samaria Site and place in play. Land Purchase cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, King (Israel), Royalty, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: I Kings 16:23 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Uncommon)
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A tentative yes from me.
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The "play as" put in [an enhancement], which would indicate that it would not stop someone from putting a site in play. In addition, "play" is defined in the REG as:
Play
A card is considered "played" (1) when its special ability activates or (2) when it is put into play – except by a "place" special ability or a "holds" identifier.
The "play as" for King Omri says "place", so it is NOT considered "played" by this definition.
Therefore, I would have to say that Ezekiel's SA does NOT negate King Omri's ability to place Samaria in play.
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The "play as" put in [an enhancement], which would indicate that it would not stop someone from putting a site in play. In addition, "play" is defined in the REG as:
Play
A card is considered "played" (1) when its special ability activates or (2) when it is put into play – except by a "place" special ability or a "holds" identifier.
The "play as" for King Omri says "place", so it is NOT considered "played" by this definition.
Therefore, I would have to say that Ezekiel's SA does NOT negate King Omri's ability to place Samaria in play.
Does that also mean that if you "place" a site into your territory with his SA you can't use Gates of Samaria's decrease?
Gates of Samaria (RA2)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect evil Kings of Israel in your territory from opponents. When you play a Samaria Site, increase your evil King of Israel 6/6 to decrease a character 6/6. • Identifiers: None • Verse: II Kings 7:1 • Availability: Rock of Ages Extended booster packs (None)
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According to the "play as" on King Omri, that would seem to be true...
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I'd be wary of both of their play as' since they both seem to be more like erratas disguised as play as.
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I agree that King Omri's original text appears to be a "play" ability. The "play as" seems to have changed that. Since I'm not aware of any errata issued for King Omri I assume the play as is incorrect.
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Wait... if the REG says in the play-as it's place, why should we be saying that's incorrect when the original ability doesn't even say "play?"
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Wait... if the REG says in the play-as it's place, why should we be saying that's incorrect when the original ability doesn't even say "play?"
"Put in play" is a play ability. "Place in play" is a place ability. Thus the play-as is changing the ability, and is to be disregarded.
Ezekiel's play-as is also an errata in disguise, correct? Referring to the "[an enhancement]" part.
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So put and place don't have the same inherent meaning in Redemption?
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No.
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I agree that King Omri's original text appears to be a "play" ability. The "play as" seems to have changed that. Since I'm not aware of any errata issued for King Omri I assume the play as is incorrect.
I agree.
King Omri's ability is NOT a place ability.
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I agree that King Omri's ability isn't a place ability, however I also disagree that its a Play ability - It's a search ability, and a change from the default of hand which results in a card being played.