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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Noah on September 01, 2011, 09:01:10 PM

Title: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: Noah on September 01, 2011, 09:01:10 PM
Does Ezekiel's SA nagate King Omri's ability to put a Samaria site in play?


Ezekiel (FF2)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Teal/Green • Ability: 7 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate play abilities. Search discard pile for a good Ezekiel card and place it beneath deck. Good Ezekiel cards cannot be negated. • Play As: Negate play [an enhancement] abilities. Search discard pile for a good Ezekiel card and place it beneath deck. Good Ezekiel cards cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Prophet, Solomon's Temple Priest • Verse: Ezekiel 1:3 • Availability: Faith of our Fathers Extended booster packs (None)


King Omri (Ki)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 6 / 7 • Class: None • Special Ability: Search your draw pile for one Samaria Site and put in play. Land Purchase cannot be negated. • Play As: Search your deck for one Samaria Site and place in play. Land Purchase cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, King (Israel), Royalty, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: I Kings 16:23 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Uncommon)

Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: SomeKittens on September 01, 2011, 09:19:20 PM
A tentative yes from me.
Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: Ken4Christ4ever on September 01, 2011, 10:10:38 PM
The "play as" put in [an enhancement], which would indicate that it would not stop someone from putting a site in play. In addition, "play" is defined in the REG as:

Quote
Play

A card is considered "played" (1) when its special ability activates or (2) when it is put into play – except by a "place" special ability or a "holds" identifier.

The "play as" for King Omri says "place", so it is NOT considered "played" by this definition.

Therefore, I would have to say that Ezekiel's SA does NOT negate King Omri's ability to place Samaria in play.
Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: Noah on September 01, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
The "play as" put in [an enhancement], which would indicate that it would not stop someone from putting a site in play. In addition, "play" is defined in the REG as:

Quote
Play

A card is considered "played" (1) when its special ability activates or (2) when it is put into play – except by a "place" special ability or a "holds" identifier.

The "play as" for King Omri says "place", so it is NOT considered "played" by this definition.

Therefore, I would have to say that Ezekiel's SA does NOT negate King Omri's ability to place Samaria in play.

Does that also mean that if you "place" a site into your territory with his SA you can't use Gates of Samaria's decrease?


Gates of Samaria (RA2)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect evil Kings of Israel in your territory from opponents. When you play a Samaria Site, increase your evil King of Israel 6/6 to decrease a character 6/6. • Identifiers: None • Verse: II Kings 7:1 • Availability: Rock of Ages Extended booster packs (None)

Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: Ken4Christ4ever on September 01, 2011, 10:50:03 PM
According to the "play as" on King Omri, that would seem to be true...
Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: browarod on September 01, 2011, 11:01:30 PM
I'd be wary of both of their play as' since they both seem to be more like erratas disguised as play as.
Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: Gabe on September 02, 2011, 12:20:43 AM
I agree that King Omri's original text appears to be a "play" ability. The "play as" seems to have changed that. Since I'm not aware of any errata issued for King Omri I assume the play as is incorrect.
Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: lightningninja on September 02, 2011, 12:22:25 AM
Wait... if the REG says in the play-as it's place, why should we be saying that's incorrect when the original ability doesn't even say "play?"
Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: Warrior_Monk on September 02, 2011, 12:56:37 AM
Wait... if the REG says in the play-as it's place, why should we be saying that's incorrect when the original ability doesn't even say "play?"
"Put in play" is a play ability. "Place in play" is a place ability. Thus the play-as is changing the ability, and is to be disregarded.

Ezekiel's play-as is also an errata in disguise, correct? Referring to the "[an enhancement]" part.
Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: uthminister [BR] on September 02, 2011, 09:17:01 AM
So put and place don't have the same inherent meaning in Redemption?
Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: Minister Polarius on September 02, 2011, 09:35:59 AM
No.
Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: Bryon on September 02, 2011, 10:13:27 AM
I agree that King Omri's original text appears to be a "play" ability. The "play as" seems to have changed that. Since I'm not aware of any errata issued for King Omri I assume the play as is incorrect.
I agree.

King Omri's ability is NOT a place ability.
Title: Re: Is this a Play Ability?
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on September 02, 2011, 09:45:20 PM
I agree that King Omri's ability isn't a place ability, however I also disagree that its a Play ability - It's a search ability, and a change from the default of hand which results in a card being played.
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