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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: NeverSmDkTwice on August 24, 2009, 11:41:36 AM

Title: Indirect Negation
Post by: NeverSmDkTwice on August 24, 2009, 11:41:36 AM
Okay, a friend and i are playing and here is what is going on.  Seeker of the Lost comes out for a rescue attempt.  I block with the Strong Force and play Demonic Snare to capture Seeker.  he then plays the Might of Faith to negate the ability to even play the capture.  Would this work or do you have to negate the capture card? 

Seeker of the Lost

Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Red/Gold/Blue • Ability: 4 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Reveal the top three cards of opponent's draw pile. Place all revealed Lost Souls in play. Place the rest beneath owner's draw pile. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: Generic NT Female Human • Verse: II Timothy 2:4 • Availability: Promotional cards (2005 Salvation Army)

The Strong Force

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Gray • Ability: 11 / 7 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: If you have a Syrian King in play, you may play an Enhancement with a capture ability. • Attributes: Unique, Male Human, Syrian, Army • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Syria, Fought Earthly Battle, Army • Verse: II Kings 6:14 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 13)

Demonic Snare

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Grey • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Capture a Hero in play. • Identifiers: OT, Connected with Demons • Verse: Judges 2:3 • : Angel Wars booster packs (Rare)

The Might of Faith

Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Red • Ability: 3 / 0 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate the special ability on an Evil Character in battle. Cannot be prevented by an evil card. • Identifiers: NT, Spiritual Gift • Verse: Matthew 21:21 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)

So the overall question here is, when you are being captured/discarded by a character that has a special ability like Strong Forces, after you have been captured, do you have the ability to negate his capture card by negating his special ability or must the capture card itself be negated?  Thanks!

In Christ,
Bryan
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: ejberkenpas22 on August 24, 2009, 11:43:37 AM
Yeah I believe that does in fact negate your card because it negates the fact that it was ever even in play. If your capture isn't in play then it's SA can't be activated.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: NeverSmDkTwice on August 24, 2009, 11:47:33 AM
Hey Shaef, can I get a ruling on this?

In Christ,
Bryan
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: NWJosh on August 24, 2009, 11:52:28 AM
I would say that negating the characters ability does not negate the capturing of the enhancement.  The enhancement has already been played and therefore it must be negated.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: ejberkenpas22 on August 24, 2009, 11:55:59 AM
but if you negate the EC's SA then the enhancement can't even be played so it goes back to the hand. And how can it's SA be activated if its in the hand?
Hey Shaef, can I get a ruling on this?

In Christ,
Bryan

If you only want his ruling then PM him.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: NeverSmDkTwice on August 24, 2009, 11:58:29 AM
Well, I want everybodies opinion, but at the same time, i want to hear everybody because this is kind of important in certain situations.  :)

In Christ,
Bryan
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: Professoralstad on August 24, 2009, 12:05:28 PM
The ability to play an enhancement cannot be negated. This was settled a long time ago when an AoC(P) played on an ET would not return to your hand if your opponent blocked with a KoT from hand. Thus, Seeker must negate the enhancement, not the ability to play it.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: ejberkenpas22 on August 24, 2009, 12:06:53 PM
I believe you but is there any way you can post the link to the thread where that was ruled? (if of course that was even in a thread). Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: RedemptionAggie on August 24, 2009, 12:58:54 PM
How's an REG quote?

Instant Abilities > Play Next Enhancement > Default Conditions
Quote
Default Conditions

•      You cannot interrupt initiative to play a card once it has been played. Once the next card is played, you cannot interrupt the numerical initiative, nor initiative by special ability (play next enhancement) to play that card.

•      The ability to play an enhancement cannot be interrupted.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: ejberkenpas22 on August 24, 2009, 01:25:02 PM
Hey! That works! So say my opponent blocks with The Rabsaris with two thousand horses on him. He plays confusion and searches blah blah blah...I have initiative and would rather negate his drawing than his search (for some reason). If I negate just Two Thousand Horses, confusion remains on the table?
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: Smokey on August 24, 2009, 01:26:08 PM
Hey! That works! So say my opponent blocks with naaman with his horses and chariots on him. He plays false peace and searches blah blah blah...I have initiative and would rather negate his drawing than his search. If I negate just Naamans Chariot and Horses, false peace remains on the table?

You couldn't do either, enhancements used by Naaman are CBN.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: ejberkenpas22 on August 24, 2009, 01:29:04 PM
ugh...well that was purely a made up situation. Ok so change naaman to the rabsaris with two thousand horses and he plays confusion. Ill edit my previous post.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: RedemptionAggie on August 24, 2009, 01:29:44 PM
Given a situation where that would actually work (some Gray EC where it could be negated), False Peace would remain on the table unless they drew it with the Horses.  In which case it is negated (since the draw was negated) and returned to the deck.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: ejberkenpas22 on August 24, 2009, 01:32:48 PM
Oh ok! Thanks!
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: DDiceRC on August 24, 2009, 01:35:28 PM
Doesn't the above REG quote violate the Fifth Commandment of Redemption?

From the Commandments thread:
#5 - Negates Cascade; Any Cards That Take Effect as the Result of a Negated Card, are Also Negated
Use Coat, play an off-color Enhancement, negate Coat, the Enhancement fizzles also.

If the REG is official, then the commandment needs to be changed.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: ejberkenpas22 on August 24, 2009, 01:38:30 PM
Doesn't the above REG quote violate the Fifth Commandment of Redemption?

From the Commandments thread:
#5 - Negates Cascade; Any Cards That Take Effect as the Result of a Negated Card, are Also Negated
Use Coat, play an off-color Enhancement, negate Coat, the Enhancement fizzles also.

If the REG is official, then the commandment needs to be changed.

That is very true
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: TimMierz on August 24, 2009, 01:44:06 PM
The commandments are not official, for one. Second, nothing violates that commandment - you can't negate the "play enhancement" ability, so there's nothing that can cascade. The example is still relevant because Coat of Many Colors is not a "play enhancement" ability, but a "use other enhancements" ability.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: DDiceRC on August 24, 2009, 01:56:50 PM
Gotcha.
Title: Re: Indirect Negation
Post by: ejberkenpas22 on August 24, 2009, 01:57:04 PM
Oh Happy Birthday by the way NeverSmDkTwice!!
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