Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Redoubter on June 16, 2012, 12:27:54 PM
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CARDS WITH MULTIPLE SPECIAL ABILITIES
When a single card has more than one special ability (including gained abilities), and an order is not specified, perform the abilities in this order:
1. First, complete all printed special abilities in the order written on the card EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.
2. Then complete all gained abilities (gained in set-aside or on previous turn, etc.), EXCEPT those that add a character to the battle.
3. Then, complete all weapon abilities.
4. Then, complete banding abilities.
5. Last, complete choose blocker abilities.
Based on this, we need to know where Armorbearer's ability kicks in. It is an "add a character to battle", but it is not a band. Does it happen before or after a weapon (like Chariots)?
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AFAIK, the exchange happens before the weapon and then the exchanged character gets to use the weapon. You might need a more clarification from someone else but that's how I've always played it.
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I'm inclined to agree, but not 100% sure on this. It all depends on if armorbearer's exchange ability is considered to also be an add to battle ability, which I do not think it is.
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I'd say before then who ever you put into battle than Chariots. That's what makes sense to me.
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The Weapon activates before all Band and Add to battle effects.
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I'm inclined to agree, but not 100% sure on this. It all depends on if armorbearer's exchange ability is considered to also be an add to battle ability, which I do not think it is.
Even if it is an add to battle ability, that wouldn't clarify where it should activate, since it's neither a band nor a choose the blocker. While I would argue that an exchange is not an add to battle (and thus would activate before the weapon does), I'd also argue that even if it was, there's a possibility it would still activate before the weapon.
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We've always played it that the exchange happens before the weapon. But I see how that could be interpretted differently. I think that exchange is not an add-to-battle ability. It doesn't really add a card, it just exchanges a card. Can you consider it adding a card to battle if the number of cards in battle does not change?
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I'm inclined to agree, but not 100% sure on this. It all depends on if armorbearer's exchange ability is considered to also be an add to battle ability, which I do not think it is.
Even if it is an add to battle ability, that wouldn't clarify where it should activate, since it's neither a band nor a choose the blocker. While I would argue that an exchange is not an add to battle (and thus would activate before the weapon does), I'd also argue that even if it was, there's a possibility it would still activate before the weapon.
I agree it doesn't clarify, but according to the order of operations, if it is an add to battle ability then it would exchange after the weapon's special ability completes. The reason I say this is because numbers 1 and 2 clearly specify that add to battle abilities are not yet performed. Therefore, it wouldn't makes sense for add to battle abilities to happen before #3 which is the completion of all weapon abilities. I believe #4 should read something like then complete all banding and add to battle abilites.
We've always played it that the exchange happens before the weapon. But I see how that could be interpretted differently. I think that exchange is not an add-to-battle ability. It doesn't really add a card, it just exchanges a card. Can you consider it adding a card to battle if the number of cards in battle does not change?
This was my thinking also. Their is not an addition of a character to the battle, just an even exchange.
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Could u post what Armorbearer's effect is?
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It is Philistine Armorbearer, actually.
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Oh, Exchange happens before Weapons as far as I know, since it's a Search and Nebu's search activates before his Weapon.
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I think I agree with Megaman, if it's not the rule, it probably should be. We'd probably have to do some situational analysis to figure out if we can get a streamlined rule that won't break anything. I'll probably go start a thread on the Elder's side, but any input from other players would also be welcome and taken into consideration.
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I think I agree with Megaman, if it's not the rule, it probably should be. We'd probably have to do some situational analysis to figure out if we can get a streamlined rule that won't break anything. I'll probably go start a thread on the Elder's side, but any input from other players would also be welcome and taken into consideration.
I agree that it should happen before weapon, but it is definitely not clear by the order of operations presented for multiple abilities, and a "definite" answer was not immediately apparent.