Author Topic: Choosing to target a protected card?  (Read 732 times)

Offline Sean

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Choosing to target a protected card?
« on: January 15, 2021, 04:30:52 PM »
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Can a card that says, "...negate an opponent's card..." target a card that is protected?

I am wondering if I can use Hired Sword to target a protected card so that I can always draw 1.

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Offline Asahel24601

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Re: Choosing to target a protected card?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2021, 05:59:25 PM »
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You can negate it, because negate targets ability, not the card itself. If the card is still protected from discard after that negate (If they're CBN or not the card that's protecting them from discard), your opponent cannot chose to discard it, so you may draw a card.

Offline Sean

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Re: Choosing to target a protected card?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2021, 06:03:34 PM »
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So, I messed up my own question.  Can you target a card that is CBN?
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Choosing to target a protected card?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2021, 06:48:08 PM »
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So, I messed up my own question.  Can you target a card that is CBN?

If you're targeting a card that's CBN with Hired Sword then yes you can target it but you won't be able to negate that card. 
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Choosing to target a protected card?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2021, 01:15:01 AM »
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Now I'm curious though if your opponent can choose to discard it since it wasn't actually negated, so it wouldn't be a "negated card". Would you automatically get to draw a card because there's no "negated card", would the opponent never have the option and thus never enter the "if/else", or does "negated card" just refer to the card that was targeted? I'm sure the third option was the intent, but just wondering if that's actually the way it works based on the wording.

Offline Watchman

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Re: Choosing to target a protected card?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2021, 07:05:49 AM »
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Now I'm curious though if your opponent can choose to discard it since it wasn't actually negated, so it wouldn't be a "negated card". Would you automatically get to draw a card because there's no "negated card", would the opponent never have the option and thus never enter the "if/else", or does "negated card" just refer to the card that was targeted? I'm sure the third option was the intent, but just wondering if that's actually the way it works based on the wording.

That rule was changed in the last REG update.  It used to be that way, that a card like Hired Sword or Bab Siege Army that targeted a card for negation, and then you could do something to that negated card (like capture it, discard it, etc.), if it wasn't negatable (such as it was CBN) then you couldn't carry out the other part of what that card did to the other card.  But that was changed so that even if you targeted a card that wasn't negatable things still could be done to that card, such as discard, capture etc.
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Offline Sean

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Re: Choosing to target a protected card?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2021, 10:59:15 AM »
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Now I'm curious though if your opponent can choose to discard it since it wasn't actually negated, so it wouldn't be a "negated card". Would you automatically get to draw a card because there's no "negated card", would the opponent never have the option and thus never enter the "if/else", or does "negated card" just refer to the card that was targeted? I'm sure the third option was the intent, but just wondering if that's actually the way it works based on the wording.
This was exactly what I was wondering.  I was looking for a way to always D1 with Hired Sword.

Watchman, do you know where in REG this is?
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Choosing to target a protected card?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2021, 11:42:48 AM »
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I think Jaylor was more asking about the specific wording on this card ("the negated card" vs. "that card" vs. "it"), than the general rule. I don't even remember why this uses "the negated card".

To that point, I think a card would be considered "negated" when successfully (i.e., not negated/instead) targeted by the negate ability, even if it doesn't do anything to the ability. But definitely a gray area.

Now I'm curious though if your opponent can choose to discard it since it wasn't actually negated, so it wouldn't be a "negated card". Would you automatically get to draw a card because there's no "negated card", would the opponent never have the option and thus never enter the "if/else", or does "negated card" just refer to the card that was targeted? I'm sure the third option was the intent, but just wondering if that's actually the way it works based on the wording.
This was exactly what I was wondering.  I was looking for a way to always D1 with Hired Sword.

Watchman, do you know where in REG this is?

The changed portion of the rule is in the CBI/P/N entries in the modifier section (stating that CBX abilities can be targeted but are unaffected, instead of untargetable) and/or the Negate entry (4th bullet, targets both card and ability). There's not really a section that elaborates on the full interaction, but both changes allow things like Bab Siege Army to work as desired.

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Choosing to target a protected card?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2021, 12:41:13 PM »
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That was in fact my question. Thanks Aggie. So to answer the question explicitly, Asahel24601 answered correctly in that the only way to guarantee that you get to draw a card is if the card targeted for negation is protected from discard (or from Hired Sword, the character playing it, or the player playing it).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 12:43:32 PM by TheJaylor »