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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Cpt.Jaeger on October 11, 2010, 09:25:08 PM

Title: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on October 11, 2010, 09:25:08 PM
Holy Grail (Wa)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may convert one human Evil Character per turn into a Hero in the brigade color of Holder's choice. Holder is limited to two such conversions per game. • Errata: Once per turn holder may convert a human Evil Character in a territory to a Hero in brigade of Holder's choice. Holder is limited to two such conversions per game. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Matthew 26:27-28 • Availability: Warriors booster packs (Rare)


once you have used holy grail twice, do you have to discard it?

once you have used it the second time (still face up/activated), can you discard it with Uzzah?

Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on October 11, 2010, 09:27:04 PM
1.) Yes.
2.) If you have two copies and use the first twice, you can use the second for Uzzah.
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on October 11, 2010, 09:29:13 PM
why do you have to discard it? it does not say you have to....
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: RTSmaniac on October 11, 2010, 09:31:35 PM
Inquiring minds want to know!
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: SomeKittens on October 11, 2010, 11:29:08 PM
If a card has uses, and they're all used up, it's discarded.
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on October 11, 2010, 11:33:25 PM
If a card has uses, and they're all used up, it's discarded.

i'm not sure that makes sense...

also- example- Jephthah

Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: browarod on October 11, 2010, 11:56:51 PM
As far as I know, the "when the uses are used, discard it" rule only applies to Artifacts (including Covenants and Curses) and Sites.
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Master_Chi on October 12, 2010, 12:26:13 AM
If a card has uses, and they're all used up, it's discarded.

i'm not sure that makes sense...

also- example- Jephthah

After you use Jephthah's special ability, he loses the ability to use it (but he is still treated as a Hero with a special ability, I think), but he still has (some) use. The only thing used-up Arts could be for would be Uzzah fodder.

From the REG:
Quote
Some artifacts, covenants, or curses have a limited number of times you can use them. When these come to an end, you must discard them immediately.
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on October 12, 2010, 01:59:42 AM
Ahh, alright.

what about magic charms? could you discard it to take advantage of the SA of both Uzzah and charms?

Magic Charms (TP)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect your Magicians from capture and conversion. You may discard this card from your Magician during battle to capture up to two human Heroes. • Play As: Protect your Magicians from capture and convert abilities. You may discard this card from your Magician during battle to capture up to two human Heroes. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Ezekiel 13:20 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: RedemptionAggie on October 12, 2010, 02:07:29 AM
No.  Uzzah says the artifact has to come from your hand (therefore not on your Magician) or your artifact pile (also not on your Magician).

I don't think you can pay one cost and get two benefits from it, in any case. 
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on October 12, 2010, 02:10:11 AM
No.  Uzzah says the artifact has to come from your hand (therefore not on your Magician) or your artifact pile (also not on your Magician).

I don't think you can pay one cost and get two benefits from it, in any case. 

good point on both counts. thanks!
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Master KChief on October 12, 2010, 03:46:59 AM
As far as I know, the "when the uses are used, discard it" rule only applies to Artifacts (including Covenants and Curses) and Sites.

it does not apply to sites.
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Korunks on October 12, 2010, 09:49:06 AM
As far as I know, the "when the uses are used, discard it" rule only applies to Artifacts (including Covenants and Curses) and Sites.

it does not apply to sites.

+1 it does not apply to sites.
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: RTSmaniac on October 12, 2010, 09:56:07 AM
Quote
From the REG:
Some artifacts, covenants, or curses have a limited number of times you can use them. When these come to an end, you must discard them immediately. 
 
 

But where did this ruling come from? Why did they decide this? Is it archaic and needs to be reevaluated for gameplay sake?
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Master_Chi on October 12, 2010, 11:47:46 AM
Quote
From the REG:
Some artifacts, covenants, or curses have a limited number of times you can use them. When these come to an end, you must discard them immediately. 
 
 

But where did this ruling come from? Why did they decide this? Is it archaic and needs to be reevaluated for gameplay sake?


As stated, it came from the REG. But I think because, in the case of Uzzah, if you have an Art that is already used but not discarded, you're not sacrificing anything to use Uzzah's ability. If Arts weren't discarded, then people would use Unholy Writ and Holy Grail as their "Art", but they're not worth anything.
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on October 12, 2010, 11:52:20 AM
Quote
From the REG:
Some artifacts, covenants, or curses have a limited number of times you can use them. When these come to an end, you must discard them immediately. 
 
 

But where did this ruling come from? Why did they decide this? Is it archaic and needs to be reevaluated for gameplay sake?


As stated, it came from the REG. But I think because, in the case of Uzzah, if you have an Art that is already used but not discarded, you're not sacrificing anything to use Uzzah's ability. If Arts weren't discarded, then people would use Unholy Writ and Holy Grail as their "Art", but they're not worth anything.

there's a very important difference between unholy writ and holy grail...

Holy Grail (Wa)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may convert one human Evil Character per turn into a Hero in the brigade color of Holder's choice. Holder is limited to two such conversions per game. • Errata: Once per turn holder may convert a human Evil Character in a territory to a Hero in brigade of Holder's choice. Holder is limited to two such conversions per game. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Matthew 26:27-28 • Availability: Warriors booster packs (Rare)

Unholy Writ (Ap)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: A human Hero in battle may be taken prisoner. Discard Artifact after use. • Errata: If a human Hero is in battle, you may discard this card to capture that Hero. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Acts 9:2 • Availability: Apostles booster packs (Ultra Rare)
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: faithraider on October 12, 2010, 11:58:31 AM
   

     The answer is NO .    Once it has been completely used it goes to discard pile and    unavailable for Uzzah.


      That was a good thought,  to try an get an extra benefit out of it.    8)

     JOHN



     
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: SirNobody on October 12, 2010, 12:23:58 PM
Hey,

Quote
From the REG:
Some artifacts, covenants, or curses have a limited number of times you can use them. When these come to an end, you must discard them immediately.  
  
 

But where did this ruling come from? Why did they decide this? Is it archaic and needs to be reevaluated for gameplay sake?

This has been the rule from the introduction of artifacts (so circa 1999).  Is there any problem that this rule creates for game play?  We don't reevaluate rules just because they are old.

EDIT: Also, Uzzah can discard from Hand or Artifact Pile.  So Magic Charms on a magician still wouldn't qualify, but Unholy Writ on the artifact pile would.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Master_Chi on October 12, 2010, 11:38:09 PM
Quote
From the REG:
Some artifacts, covenants, or curses have a limited number of times you can use them. When these come to an end, you must discard them immediately. 
 
 

But where did this ruling come from? Why did they decide this? Is it archaic and needs to be reevaluated for gameplay sake?


As stated, it came from the REG. But I think because, in the case of Uzzah, if you have an Art that is already used but not discarded, you're not sacrificing anything to use Uzzah's ability. If Arts weren't discarded, then people would use Unholy Writ and Holy Grail as their "Art", but they're not worth anything.

there's a very important difference between unholy writ and holy grail...

Holy Grail (Wa)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may convert one human Evil Character per turn into a Hero in the brigade color of Holder's choice. Holder is limited to two such conversions per game. • Errata: Once per turn holder may convert a human Evil Character in a territory to a Hero in brigade of Holder's choice. Holder is limited to two such conversions per game. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Matthew 26:27-28 • Availability: Warriors booster packs (Rare)

Unholy Writ (Ap)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: A human Hero in battle may be taken prisoner. Discard Artifact after use. • Errata: If a human Hero is in battle, you may discard this card to capture that Hero. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Acts 9:2 • Availability: Apostles booster packs (Ultra Rare)

My bad, I thought that Writ was worded like Grail, something along the lines of "Capture a human Hero in battle, only be used twice..." My mistake.
Title: Re: Holy Grail + Uzzah - simple Q
Post by: Cpt.Jaeger on October 12, 2010, 11:41:54 PM
tis fine.... although it would be awesomely OPd if you could use it twice!
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