Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Gabe on June 18, 2009, 08:56:10 AM
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#1 - When High Places discards itself because a Hero is captured in territory, doesn't it's ability continue to be active through the end of the phase? So the holder could continue to play capture cards on more Heroes in territory until the end of that phase?
It seems to me that this wasn't the intention of the card when Bryon says "So, you can still use the Dungeon of Malchiah outside of battle once per copy of High Places, but that limit will keep that tactic in check." in his preview article.
#2 - When it says "contain the word 'place' in the SA" does that also include the word "placed", "places", "replace" and so on?
And to echo Aggie:
#3 - Joseph's Brothers' Scheme:
Select two human Heroes in play to fight each other. The loser is placed in holder's Land of Bondage and is treated as a Lost Soul.
Can you play Joseph's Brothers' Scheme outside of battle with High Places?
If yes, is the hero captured from battle or territory?
High Places - evil Fort
"During your preparation and discard phases, you may play evil Enhancements that contain the word "place" in the special ability. If you capture a Hero in a territory, discard this card."
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When High Places discards itself because a Hero is captured in territory, doesn't it's ability continue to be active through the end of the phase? So the holder could continue to play capture cards on more Heroes in territory until the end of that phase?
I believe that's true, but I don't know why that would even be a big deal. Did you have a particular combo in mind?
When it says "contain the word 'place' in the SA" does that also include the word "placed", "places", "replace" and so on?
I'm interested in the answer to this as well; I can see it going either way. Literally, the word "place" is found in all those words, but technically when you add other letters to a word, it becomes a different word, so...where do we draw the line?
#3 seems to follow #2. :-\
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#1
I guess I have never thought about whether fortresses continue to remain active after being discarded. For most of the fortresses, it does not matter. However, would Wall of Protection continue to remain active as well after being discarded (but not negated)? My guy reaction is that the rule might be that the effects of fortresses linger, much like artifacts, but I couldn't find anything that stated such about fortresses.
#2
I am going to go with the legalistic side as the word "place" is in quotes. Therefore, I don't believe "placed," "places," or "replace" will work. That goes hand-in-hand with I am Truth and I am Love. Frankly, I never paid enough attention to the fact that I am Truth had quotes around the word "ignores" until Marcus pointed that out yesterday. Such a fact a fact ruins one of my current offenses... ;)
I don't know the answer to #3.
Kirk
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My understanding (I couldn't show you where it came from) is that if a card is discarded unless its s/a is negated it continues to be active for the duration of the phase.
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Bryon said he limited it strictly to "place" with no suffixes. So I'm pretty sure #2 is "no" and #3 is moot.
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Does this fort have the same restriction as set asides, in that, you must have that evil brigade in play to play your cards? Or does the fort let you place cards willy nilly?
My example...I have a fort no ECs in territory and I "place" 3 or 4 different enhancements down?
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You always always always play Enhancements on characters, and they must brigade match unless you get the "regardless of brigade" adder on the special.
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So....
1. You have High Places active.
2. You have a character already in territory.
3. You play enhancements with "place" on the character(s) of matching brigade in your territory.
4. The "place" card goes wherever it goes.
You cannot just "place" an enhancement from your hand onto your opponent's characters. They must "pass through" a character in your territory.
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I have a feeling Self will be in 99.9% of High Places decks..........
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Can you play an enhancement off of someone in your Kingdoms of the World?
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Hm...we need the REG. I would think so, but I don't know enough about playing enhancements outside of battle to say.
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KotW is in play, and protected from effect (or is it harm?). Does playing an enhancement constitute an effect(/harm)?
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KotW is in play, and protected from effect (or is it harm?). Does playing an enhancement constitute an effect(/harm)?
REG:
Set-aside enhancements
A set-aside enhancement has the phrase “set a (type of character) aside” in its special ability. A set-aside enhancement can be played on a character of matching brigade in your territory during your Preparation Phase or Discard Phase. Its special ability activates even though it is played outside of battle. You may also play them in battle according to the rules of initiative. You can direct the effect of the set-aside card to any character you own and currently control. You may set aside a character with multiple set-aside cards if they are played at the same time.
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Hey,
Can you play an enhancement off of someone in your Kingdoms of the World?
Yes, you just can't target them with the ability of the card played on them.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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#2 - When it says "contain the word 'place' in the SA" does that also include the word "placed", "places", "replace" and so on?
hey,
I believe the precinct for this is Leviathan "All effects of all enhancements with the word ship in the title are negated. Leviathan is protected from capture." - It doesn't prevent Worship of Milcom.
L8er,
Gil
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When did this ruling change? HoH used to negate the words "interrupt", "prevent" and "negate", but most of the characters it negated said "interrupted and prevented".
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Adding -ed on the end of a word to keep grammar is different than the letters "s h i p" being in the totally different word "worship".
HoH still negates "interrupted" "prevented" "negated", but Levi doesn't negate Worship of M.
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If you can't use "placed" cards with High Places, HoH wouldn't negate "interrupted" "prevented" "negated". (Moot point since HoH now negates the SAs and not the words.)
It just seems like the precedent is to negate the word and its different tenses, not just the word.
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If you can't use "placed" cards with High Places, HoH wouldn't negate "interrupted" "prevented" "negated". (Moot point since HoH now negates the SAs and not the words.)
It just seems like the precedent is to negate the word and its different tenses, not just the word.
I think that the change in HoH was intended to eliminate that precedent. It would be much easier for hosts to rule correctly if the word was exact.
BTW, the fact that the enhancements are played outside of the Battle Phase means that they cannot be negated, correct?
Fearfulness just became more useful. ;D
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I thought it was changed because it was supposed to negate the SAs (including people like Herod the Great and Titus) and not misworded characters like Enoch. ;D
There's still I Am Truth/I Am Love - one uses "ignore" and the other uses "ignores", which renders one basically useless and they no longer work together, since what you search for can still be negated.
BTW, the fact that the enhancements are played outside of the Battle Phase means that they cannot be negated, correct?
There's Covenant of Noah, but other than that, I don't think there's a way to negate them.
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#1 - When High Places discards itself because a Hero is captured in territory, doesn't it's ability continue to be active through the end of the phase? So the holder could continue to play capture cards on more Heroes in territory until the end of that phase?
haha nice. the card isnt even out yet and it already needs errata. nice find.
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I don't think it needs an errata. If you, by some miracle, have all 5 of your copies of DoM in your and, AND have HP in play, AND there's 5 heroes in play that AREN'T protected from capture (yay for protect forts) then I think it's perfectly fine to use all 5 DoMs at one time, though probably pointless.
Besides, even if it DID receive an Errata, in t2 you can still play with 3 in your deck. That's only 2 less DoMs you can play in territory. That's not THAT big of a difference.
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schadenfreude
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If an ongoing ability is
negated discarded, its effect continues until the end of the phase. So, if you capture a hero in a territory, High Places is immediately discarded, but then remains active until the end of the phase.
If anything needs errata, its my article, not the card. When I wrote that sentence in the article, I was assuming you'd only have one Dungeon in your hand at a time on a given turn, but obviously that isn't always the case. The main point is that you'd only get to captuire heroes one PHASE per copy of High Places, not one TIME per copy of High Places.
As for the "place" vs "placed" debate, in the other thread, I just wrote what I told my playtest group. I am not confident that I was correct. I just assumed that the word had to match, but I'd be OK going the other way, if that is the precident.
[modbreak=Schaef]Fixed ::) [/modbreak]
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#2 - When it says "contain the word 'place' in the SA" does that also include the word "placed", "places", "replace" and so on?
I think that "replace" would not qualify, even with Bryon's concessions. This would fall under the "worship" not qualifying for "ship" category.
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I don't think it needs an errata. If you, by some miracle, have all 5 of your copies of DoM in your and, AND have HP in play, AND there's 5 heroes in play that AREN'T protected from capture (yay for protect forts) then I think it's perfectly fine to use all 5 DoMs at one time, though probably pointless.
Besides, even if it DID receive an Errata, in t2 you can still play with 3 in your deck. That's only 2 less DoMs you can play in territory. That's not THAT big of a difference.
there are only 2 protect forts that come to mind...z-temple and obadiahs caves. but i suppose there are protect arts as well.
youre restricting youself to dom alone and neglecting the other captures (stocks, slave trade, and esau for raiders camp abuse...not to mention sin in the camp for further high places exploitability). 5-6 captures in one turn per copy of high places can be devestating in t2. factor in the fact dom keeps one heroes copies locked out forever until its removed from lob and the other captures to clean up any other straggling heroes...high places can really wreck havoc.
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Gabe has already given his prediction of High Places here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=16236.msg253961#msg253961). And so far it seems to be holding true and it hasn't even been released to the masses yet. :D
Oh what a fun set we are going to be getting our grubby little deck building hands on. ;D
Godspeed,
Mike
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You're right, those're the only 2 good protection forts that effect your whole territory. But you can also put heroes into Stronghold in the Desert, House in Bethany, and Kerith Ravine depending on your strategy. There's also that gem Blue Tassels, among other useful artifacts.
also, if you're that worried, (and play none of the aforementioned strategies) then play a Babylonian or Assyrian defense. Or you could even -gasp- use the Shuffler lost soul to send them all back to your draw pile! -endgasp-
And ok, I'll give you that there are other capture cards, but the most you could play in any one turn is 14, assuming you have Tables of the Law active, a hand full of 10 captures, you draw 3, and have 1 in Storehouse. Perhaps you could get more via the drawing set asides, as well.
I still don't believe this card is overpowered. As has already been said, a good offense will LAUGH at a deck built on this strategy. If you're really really worried about it, then play one of the counters already listed, but if this one fortress causes you to lose tournaments and you get mad about it, then perhaps it's time to take up a different game. I hear checkers is fun. ;)
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And ok, I'll give you that there are other capture cards, but the most you could play in any one turn is 14, assuming you have Tables of the Law active, a hand full of 10 captures, you draw 3, and have 1 in Storehouse. Perhaps you could get more via the drawing set asides, as well.
haha tables of the law. thats actually kind of funny. hur/gifts works remarkably better.
I still don't believe this card is overpowered.
i dont recall anyone saying this card was 'overpowered'. a matter of opinion, either way.
As has already been said, a good offense will LAUGH at a deck built on this strategy.
subjective. laugh away with your 'good offense' when you have no heroes to rescue with.
If you're really really worried about it, then play one of the counters already listed,
this is fairly obvious, thank you for stating it.
but if this one fortress causes you to lose tournaments and you get mad about it, then perhaps it's time to take up a different game. I hear checkers is fun. ;)
irrelevant to the topic at hand. good luck with checkers though.
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Enough.