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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Josh on October 01, 2010, 09:15:47 PM

Title: Healing
Post by: Josh on October 01, 2010, 09:15:47 PM
Ok, I'm trying to understand healing better.  Here are some situations that I'm not sure about:

1. I attack with Abishai/Asahel/Benaiah (K).  The only lost soul I have access to is in a green site.  My opponent CMs Benaiah.  Can I play Brass Serpent during the battle phase, perhaps on a hero in my territory?  Or is it negated by Benaiah?

2. Same scenario as 1, except instead of Brass Serpent, I have I Am Healing active.  I use it to heal Benaiah.  Does he stay in battle or is he returned to territory?
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: CJSports on October 01, 2010, 09:51:56 PM
Healing returns him to territory and healing cards are not actually be playing in battle, they are a little like dominants in that sense.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: SomeKittens on October 01, 2010, 11:16:06 PM
As far as I know, Healing cards can be played whenever a set aside could.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Professoralstad on October 02, 2010, 08:03:03 AM
As far as I know, Healing cards can be played whenever a set aside could.

Not quite. They can also be played during battle, and on your opponent's turn (otherwise Torment and Healing of Namaan would be much less useful). They are essentially like dominants that can only be used if there is someone you control of their brigade that can use them in play or discarded on that turn.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Josh on October 02, 2010, 11:44:21 AM
Not quite. They can also be played during battle, and on your opponent's turn (otherwise Torment and Healing of Namaan would be much less useful). They are essentially like dominants that can only be used if there is someone you control of their brigade that can use them in play or discarded on that turn.
So in relation to scenario 1 above, I could heal Benaiah using a hero outside of battle, right?  And it wouldn't be negated?  So would Benaiah stay in battle in either of the scenarios?

EDIT:  New question in addition to the one above.  If I set aside a hero with Provisions, hero returns, and then my opponent CMs the hero and I use Brass Serpent, does the hero retain the gained ability from Provisions?
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on October 02, 2010, 12:38:00 PM
someone you control
WHAT?!@?!?! I CAN'T HEAL MY OPPONENT'S CARD?!?!?! >:c >:c >:c >:c

If I exchange a hero for Stalks of Flax and then CM the hero I gave my opponent, I can't brass serpent it? (I assume?)

EDIT: I misread. Nevermind me. So, I can heal my opponent's hero as long as I have a hero out for Brass Serpent?
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: galadgawyn on October 02, 2010, 01:16:15 PM
1.  You can play healing cards and set-aside cards in a battle but then they follow the rules of initiative and Brass Serpent would be negated by Benaiah.  Also even if your healing enhancement was CBN, if played during battle it would still return him to territory.  Healing cards (like set-asides) can also be played outside of battle so instead you can wait until the Battle Phase is over and heal him during your discard phase when Benaiah's ability is no longer active to prevent it. 

It is also a uniquely weird situation where the requirement to have a character of matching brigade in order to play an enhancement can be met by the hero that you want to heal even if it is in the discard pile. 

2.  As mentioned, he returns to territory.

3.  The hero does retain the gained ability.  Healing sort of undoes their discard so that they keep all gained abilities but they don't get back weapons or placed enhancements. 
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Minister Polarius on October 03, 2010, 06:05:04 AM
So far nobody has answered this correctly. You could play Brass Serpent during battle, but Benaiah would Negate it.

Real answer: just wait until after battle, even if Benaiah didn't Negate it during battle (which he does), you still wouldn't have access to the Soul since Healed cards go to territory.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on October 03, 2010, 12:20:58 PM
Does healing a diseased character kick them out of battle?
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Smokey on October 03, 2010, 01:31:52 PM
Does healing a diseased character kick them out of battle?

Yes, all healed cards return to territory.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Master_Chi on October 04, 2010, 10:41:03 AM
So far nobody has answered this correctly. You could play Brass Serpent during battle, but Benaiah would Negate it.

Real answer: just wait until after battle, even if Benaiah didn't Negate it during battle (which he does), you still wouldn't have access to the Soul since Healed cards go to territory.

....  Healing cards (like set-asides) can also be played outside of battle so instead you can wait until the Battle Phase is over and heal him during your discard phase when Benaiah's ability is no longer active to prevent it
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Minister Polarius on October 04, 2010, 11:37:26 AM
So far nobody has answered this correctly. You could play Brass Serpent during battle, but Benaiah would Negate it.

Real answer: just wait until after battle, even if Benaiah didn't Negate it during battle (which he does), you still wouldn't have access to the Soul since Healed cards go to territory.

....  Healing cards (like set-asides) can also be played outside of battle so instead you can wait until the Battle Phase is over and heal him during your discard phase when Benaiah's ability is no longer active to prevent it
Fail. He was closest to right, but said that healing Enhancements have to follow the rules of initiative during battle phase.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: galadgawyn on October 04, 2010, 07:40:10 PM
Um, you fail on your fail?

Healing enhancements (and set-asides) in fact do have to follow the rules of initiative if played during a battle.  From the Reg description of healing enhancements:

Quote
If you play a healing enhancement in battle according to initiative,
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Minister Polarius on October 04, 2010, 10:41:54 PM
It's been played differently for ages, and the REG is so flawed you never know what to believe in there anymore.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: RTSmaniac on October 05, 2010, 08:20:28 AM
Quote
3.  The hero does retain the gained ability.  Healing sort of undoes their discard so that they keep all gained abilities but they don't get back weapons or placed enhancements.   
 


I dont think this is correct
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on October 05, 2010, 09:08:46 AM
Quote
3.  The hero does retain the gained ability.  Healing sort of undoes their discard so that they keep all gained abilities but they don't get back weapons or placed enhancements.   
 


I dont think this is correct

I am 99% sure it is correct, otherwise heroless would have been much easier to stop in the past.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Master_Chi on October 05, 2010, 09:11:58 AM
Quote
3.  The hero does retain the gained ability.  Healing sort of undoes their discard so that they keep all gained abilities but they don't get back weapons or placed enhancements.   
 


I dont think this is correct

I am 99% sure it is correct, otherwise heroless would have been much easier to stop in the past.

I think since you heal them before they are actually discarded, they retain everything. Only if something like Raising of the Saints was played on a Hero in Potter's Field (or Kerith Revine) would the character lose their gains.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: SomeKittens on October 05, 2010, 10:23:42 AM
Only Potter's Field directly says to treat it as a discarded hero.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: RTSmaniac on October 05, 2010, 10:28:10 AM
Quote
3.  The hero does retain the gained ability.  Healing sort of undoes their discard so that they keep all gained abilities but they don't get back weapons or placed enhancements.   
 


I dont think this is correct

I am 99% sure it is correct, otherwise heroless would have been much easier to stop in the past.

the bolded part was what i was questioning.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: SomeKittens on October 05, 2010, 10:31:19 AM
Seeing as they haven't hit the discard pile, I think they should keep them.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Master_Chi on October 05, 2010, 10:42:23 AM
Only Potter's Field directly says to treat it as a discarded hero.

That's why I made the exception for Potter's Field and Kerith Ravine.

Seeing as they haven't hit the discard pile, I think they should keep them.

I agree.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: CountFount on October 05, 2010, 10:45:10 AM
I agree as well.

In most cases, the card is healing the character, not raising him from the grave
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: RTSmaniac on October 05, 2010, 11:00:05 AM
In other card games its considered a replacement effect. Could be considered an instead ability because instead of the discard pile it goes to territory.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: browarod on October 05, 2010, 12:46:35 PM
I guess I always thought of the ruling like this: If a warrior is utterly crushed on the battlefield, even if you can patch up his wounds (healing enhancement), you can't salvage his damaged armor/gear (weapons/placed enhancements) unless you're David and have a magical Tent.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: SirNobody on October 05, 2010, 01:59:31 PM
Hey,

A character healed from a poison or disease remains in his current location.  A character healed from discard is returned to it's controller's territory.

Gained Abilities/Weapons/Placed cards are all retained when a character is healed.  Healing makes it as if the character was never discarded.

I'm pretty sure healing cards played during battle have to be played according to initiative rules.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: browarod on October 05, 2010, 02:08:55 PM
A character healed from a poison or disease remains in his current location.  A character healed from discard is returned to it's controller's territory.

Gained Abilities/Weapons/Placed cards are all retained when a character is healed.  Healing makes it as if the character was never discarded.
I was wrong on two counts :(
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on October 05, 2010, 02:21:54 PM
Lambo... someone.... get in here to argue.... now my t2 deck has no way to rescue souls.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on October 05, 2010, 02:36:24 PM
You mean your T2 deck that uses the offense I gave you.  ;)
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on October 05, 2010, 02:51:50 PM
You just created the basis s0n. Mine can rescue over 9000 souls to your 5.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Master_Chi on October 05, 2010, 06:34:40 PM
A character healed from a poison or disease remains in his current location.  A character healed from discard is returned to it's controller's territory.

Gained Abilities/Weapons/Placed cards are all retained when a character is healed.  Healing makes it as if the character was never discarded.
I was wrong on two counts :(

Don't weapons follow a character if they are captured?
Also, if my Lahmi (with respective spear) is discarded but I heal him first, his spear stays with him?
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: galadgawyn on October 06, 2010, 08:20:54 PM
Quote
I think since you heal them before they are actually discarded, they retain everything.

That is not always true.  If someone uses CM in the Prep phase, you can still heal them during your discard phase.  I'm pretty sure the hero has actually been in the discard pile and could be targeted by things like Forgotten History.  They are not just sitting in limbo until the end of your turn.

Quote
Gained Abilities/Weapons/Placed cards are all retained when a character is healed.  Healing makes it as if the character was never discarded.
Did that change?  I thought the healing card brought the character back but didn't target the cards on them.  Basically the hero is discarded but the healing restores the hero to full strength and since gained abilities are part of the character they get restored also. 

According to you, did the discard actually happen?  What if the placed card is currently somewhere besides the discard pile when they are healed?
What about a trigger that goes off when an opponent's hero is discarded?  If healing really fully undoes the discard, then is that other ability untriggered? 
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: SomeKittens on October 06, 2010, 10:02:47 PM
*sings* Oh, Bearded ones!
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Master_Chi on October 07, 2010, 09:40:30 AM
*sings* Oh, Bearded ones!

I have an okay beard, but I think you mean "Oh, white-bearded ones!"
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: SomeKittens on October 07, 2010, 01:24:27 PM
Half of the heroes in my avatar are black bearded, but they still qualify.
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: Master_Chi on October 08, 2010, 10:12:38 AM
Half of the heroes in my avatar are black bearded, but they still qualify.

Curses, mine's brown with some red tint to it....
Title: Re: Healing
Post by: browarod on October 08, 2010, 02:29:08 PM
Half of the heroes in my avatar are black bearded, but they still qualify.

Curses, mine's brown with some red tint to it....
Same here, lol.
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