Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: DaClock on June 06, 2009, 05:12:18 PM
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Okay, in my most recent game my opponent (BubbleBoy) brought up this question.
First, he set my Eli the Priest aside with Haman. I failed to rescue with a female after 4 turns so Eli was being discarded. I have I Am Healing in my hand. Here are my questions.
1. If I have another gold Hero out, can I heal him? He's being discarded from set-aside area and I Am Healing says "in play."
2. If Eli is the only hero I have left, can I heal him? I don't have a gold hero in play, and by definition I need one to play a healing card. However, Eli is being discarded and the REG says "You can play a healing enhancement at any time to restore a character sent to the discard pile at any previous time during the turn (e.g., Draw Phase or Preparation Phase)."
Eli the Priest - Gold, 4/4
Haman - Set aside up to 3 male heroes in opponents' territories for 4 turns. If a female hero doesn't make a successful rescue attempt during those four turns, discard hero.
I Am Healing - Holder may heal all of holder's Heroes in play. May be used twice.
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I would say no to the first, and yes to the second.
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I am also unsure as to whether Haman's ability causes the heroes to be discarded directly from set-aside or whether they come back to territory first and then are discarded. If the latter, then I Am Healing would work, correct? So which is it?
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I would say no to the first, and yes to the second.
So if I have another gold hero out, I cannot heal Eli (being discarded from set-aside) because he isn't in play?
But if Eli is my only hero (being discarded from set-aside) I can heal him?
I don't understand how that is possible.
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From the REG (Healing > How to Use):
Healing cards may be activated on any character in play (e.g., territory) of matching brigade color. They may target any card being discarded or subject to a poison or disease special ability, regardless of brigade color. The healing effect is instant, not delayed. You can play a healing enhancement at any time to restore a character sent to the discard pile at any previous time during the turn (e.g., Draw Phase or Preparation Phase). The discarded character may come from battle, a territory, a set-aside area, or from a draw pile (e.g., Confusion). Cards being discarded can be healed on the way to the discard pile. Cards being discarded from anywhere may be healed at any point during that turn. Characters discarded on a previous turn cannot be healed. A healed card is immediately placed in the owner’s territory; they retain all their abilities.
1. Yes (hero of matching brigade to play healing card on is in territory (play), and the targeted hero was discarded from set aside)
2. No (a hero to play the healing card on must be in play, according to this quote)
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From the REG (Healing > How to Use):
Healing cards may be activated on any character in play (e.g., territory) of matching brigade color. They may target any card being discarded or subject to a poison or disease special ability, regardless of brigade color. The healing effect is instant, not delayed. You can play a healing enhancement at any time to restore a character sent to the discard pile at any previous time during the turn (e.g., Draw Phase or Preparation Phase). The discarded character may come from battle, a territory, a set-aside area, or from a draw pile (e.g., Confusion). Cards being discarded can be healed on the way to the discard pile. Cards being discarded from anywhere may be healed at any point during that turn. Characters discarded on a previous turn cannot be healed. A healed card is immediately placed in the owner’s territory; they retain all their abilities.
1. Yes (hero of matching brigade to play healing card on is in territory (play), and the targeted hero was discarded from set aside)
2. No (a hero to play the healing card on must be in play, according to this quote)
I agree, next question. Eli is discarded during the Upkeep phase. I activate I Am Healing in my artifact pile.
Does this heal Eli? He isn't in play, but is being discarded. I would think he could be healed according to what you quoted but I'm not sure.
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I think so. Activating the healing card as an artifact seems to be equivalent to the first requirement, as I think that is simply the way to get the card played, and the second requirement is met (was sent to discard pile).
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Yeah, I had my yes and no backward.
I would say that I am inclined to agree about the artifact pile, but a closer look at the REG reveals:
You can play a healing enhancement at any time to restore a character sent to the discard pile at any previous time during the turn (e.g., Draw Phase or Preparation Phase). The discarded character may come from battle, a territory, a set-aside area, or from a draw pile (e.g., Confusion).
I don't know if the fact that it is an Artifact and not an Enhancement means that the specified "in play" on card is not trumped by this REG ruling.
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It does not. That phrase only demonstrates that the Enhancement does not need to be played in battle. Artifacts already do not need to be played in battle, so that clarification is not necessary for them.
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It does not. That phrase only demonstrates that the Enhancement does not need to be played in battle. Artifacts already do not need to be played in battle, so that clarification is not necessary for them.
So "Heal all heroes in play" means "Heal all heroes in play and all heroes discarded from any location at any point during this turn?"
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[shrug] That's what the REG says.
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Hey,
I am also unsure as to whether Haman's ability causes the heroes to be discarded directly from set-aside or whether they come back to territory first and then are discarded. If the latter, then I Am Healing would work, correct? So which is it?
I think Haman is missing an "instead." The "discard hero" at the end of his ability should be worded as an instead of bringing him back from the set-aside area. So the hero is discarded from the set-aside area not from the territory.
You can play a healing enhancement on Eli the Priest to heal him from being discarded from the set-aside area. Similarly you can play a healing enhancement on a character in your territory to heal Eli the Priest from being discarded from the set-aside area. But both of these are only the case if Eli the Priest is a valid target for the healing enhancement in question. For example, if you were trying to play Bread of Life on Aaron in your territory to heal Eli the Priest it wouldn't work because Eli the priest is not a green brigade hero and thus he isn't a valid target for that healing enhancement.
As worded, Eli the Priest is not a valid target for I am Healing because he is not "in play."
I am Healing doesn't have a play as, but based on the way I have seen it played in the past I wouldn't be surprised if we currently treat it as if it had the play as "Holder may heal all of holder’s Heroes. May be used twice." rather than playing it as it is currently worded.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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I am Healing doesn't have a play as, but based on the way I have seen it played in the past I wouldn't be surprised if we currently treat it as if it had the play as "Holder may heal all of holders Heroes. May be used twice." rather than playing it as it is currently worded.
However, since there is currently no errata/play as, we decided in our game that since no hero was in his territory, he could not heal Eli.
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i think any hero trying to hit the discard pile is and can be subject to a healing ability
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Hey,
I am also unsure as to whether Haman's ability causes the heroes to be discarded directly from set-aside or whether they come back to territory first and then are discarded. If the latter, then I Am Healing would work, correct? So which is it?
I think Haman is missing an "instead." The "discard hero" at the end of his ability should be worded as an instead of bringing him back from the set-aside area. So the hero is discarded from the set-aside area not from the territory.
You can play a healing enhancement on Eli the Priest to heal him from being discarded from the set-aside area. Similarly you can play a healing enhancement on a character in your territory to heal Eli the Priest from being discarded from the set-aside area. But both of these are only the case if Eli the Priest is a valid target for the healing enhancement in question. For example, if you were trying to play Bread of Life on Aaron in your territory to heal Eli the Priest it wouldn't work because Eli the priest is not a green brigade hero and thus he isn't a valid target for that healing enhancement.
As worded, Eli the Priest is not a valid target for I am Healing because he is not "in play."
I am Healing doesn't have a play as, but based on the way I have seen it played in the past I wouldn't be surprised if we currently treat it as if it had the play as "Holder may heal all of holder’s Heroes. May be used twice." rather than playing it as it is currently worded.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Some healing enhancements say "heal a hero that is about to be discarded." Others say "heal a hero in play." I've never seen them treated differently though. Is there a discrepancy?