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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: bmc25 on February 06, 2015, 12:23:30 PM
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Quick question...as it has been a LONG time since I've played Redemption.
I attack with Ahimaaz with I am Patience active, while having access to a lost soul.
Ahimaaz:
"Holder may look at one opponent's hand or cards face down in a Site. Hero may then withdraw from battle unharmed or continue the battle. Ahimaaz cannot be captured."
I am Patience:
"At the end of your turn, if your rescue attempt failed you may convert one human Evil Character (except warrior class) to a green brigade Hero."
If I attack with Ahimaaz, look at their hand, and leave the battle, would it be considered a failed rescue attempt, and allow me to use I am patience?
Sorry if this is obvious, it has been a long time since I've had to answer any redemption questions.
Thanks in advance.
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It doesn't count as a failed battle as far as I know.
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First off, if you had access to a LS, then it was a Rescue Attempt and not a Battle Challenge.
Now, whether or not it's a failed RA depends on whether Redemption's definition of a failed RA requires you to be blocked and not get a LS, or for you to just not get a LS. If it's the former, then you don't get to activate I am Patient; if it's the latter, you do.
Logically, I would lean towards the latter definition as wouldn't starting a RA and failing to get a LS be the logical definition of a failed RA? But no one has ever said that Redemption utilizes logic in determining all of it's rules...
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Ahimaaz + I am Patience is a well known old-timey combo.
If Ahimaaz has access to a LS and uses his SA to voluntarily leave battle it is a failed rescue attempt and I am Patience triggers.
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A follow up question: What about if Lazarus was discarded, and you started a new battle with someone else and rescued a lost soul? Would you be able to convert with I Am Patience in that case?
Lazarus: "If Lazarus is discarded and your rescue attempt fails, search discard pile for a good convert Enhancement and you may begin a new battle."
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I would say yes it would trigger because it was a failed rescue attempt. If it is not considered a failed RA then Lazarus would not trigger. The trigger should be as after Lazarus's ability has completed. You would present your new hero, then that hero's SA would come into play (if they have one) and then I Am Patience would trigger.
Someone correct me if I am wrong on this.
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I would guess that in the Lazarus scenario I am Patience would fire after your second rescue attempt finishes.
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I would guess that in the Lazarus scenario I am Patience would fire after your second rescue attempt finishes.
I think it would trigger after the new hero is presented and again if the second hero has a failed rescue attempt. Unless it specifies once per turn.
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I would guess that in the Lazarus scenario I am Patience would fire after your second rescue attempt finishes.
I think it would trigger after the new hero is presented and again if the second hero has a failed rescue attempt. Unless it specifies once per turn.
Sorry I missed the at the end of your turn. I agree with Praeceps (no matter how much it hurts to say that!).
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A follow up question: What about if Lazarus was discarded, and you started a new battle with someone else and rescued a lost soul? Would you be able to convert with I Am Patience in that case?
Lazarus: "If Lazarus is discarded and your rescue attempt fails, search discard pile for a good convert Enhancement and you may begin a new battle."
So I thought about this based on a ruling with Grapes of Wrath and Chariot of Fire. The RA fails, I Am Patience triggers before another character enters battle, because Lazarus is a "may" and doesn't have to be done, so it triggers after you search the discard pile for an Enhancement because his ability is now complete. The battle is over, the trigger happens, now you get to decide if you want to make another RA.
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I Am Patience specifically says "end of turn" though
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You missed the same thing I did! The SA of I Am Patience specifies at the end of your turn not the end of your rescue attempt. So it will not actually trigger until the end of discard phase which is the end of your turn. Now what I think is still up for debate is if the first rescue attempt failed but the second succeds does the SA trigger because there was a failed rescue attempt? Or is the second then considered your rescue attempt and the success trump the original failure?
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Or if they both fail, does it trigger twice?
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Or if they both fail, does it trigger twice?
I would think it could only be one as the SA is singular (rescue attempt).
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You missed the same thing I did! The SA of I Am Patience specifies at the end of your turn not the end of your rescue attempt. So it will not actually trigger until the end of discard phase which is the end of your turn. Now what I think is still up for debate is if the first rescue attempt failed but the second succeds does the SA trigger because there was a failed rescue attempt? Or is the second then considered your rescue attempt and the success trump the original failure?
Anyone have an answer to this?
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INE, but I would think that as long as "a" rescue attempt failed during the turn then I Am Patience would trigger, regardless of the status of any other rescue attempts that turn.
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I've been pondering this one, reviewing old threads, working with the ability, and I'm fairly confident now in what I'm going to say.
"At the end of your turn, if your rescue attempt failed you may convert one human Evil Character (except warrior class) to a green brigade Hero."
My ruling would be that this is 'triggered' upon any of your rescue attempts failing during the turn. That is, any battle that was a rescue attempt at any point (there was a soul that could be rescued by the heroes in battle at ANY point in said battle) which did not result in an actual rescue of a soul during battle resolution (any number of reasons: protection, shuffle, hero(es) defeated, battle became a battle challenge instead due to special ability, etc.) 'triggers' I Am Patience, which waits to complete until the end of the turn (not between battles). A successful rescue later does not invalidate the trigger being made.
At the end of the turn, if the statement "your rescue attempt failed" is true, then the conversion may take place. Note, however, that this is one conversion, as it does not say "for each failed rescue attempt," it is a singular If-Then trigger. So you can have attempted rescue, then Grapes, then Ambush the City, then run-away Ahimaaz for 4 separate 'rescue attempts' that failed (no soul rescued when one could have been), and you still only get one conversion.
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Thanks for clearing that up! Makes complete sense to me!
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I agree with Redoubter's assessment.