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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Warrior_Monk on March 09, 2009, 03:31:03 PM

Title: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 09, 2009, 03:31:03 PM
Enoch
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: White • Ability: 7 / 8 • Class: None • Special Ability: Enoch may be removed from the game, but is prevented from being discarded. • Errata: Enoch may be removed from the game, but is protected from being discarded

ok... so can I RA with Enoch, and remove him from the game instantly? I understand that the whole 'may be removed from the game' means that he's not protected from that... but based off the wording, it seems like it could, though, it wouldn't make sense, as there's no benefit from the card, like The Destroyer.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 09, 2009, 03:54:05 PM
You could band to him to force them to block small then remove him. (cuz they need to capture him)
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 09, 2009, 04:20:17 PM
You could band to him to force them to block small then remove him. (cuz they need to capture him)
so, you can just remove him from the game? is that an instant ability?
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 09, 2009, 04:27:31 PM
I'm pretty sure that you cannot just choose to remove him from the game when you present him in battle. I guess the "Play As" needs to be reworded.

RR's scenario would not work, since his SA would have to take affect upon entering battle, and remove from the game is an instant ability that would have to be carried out at that moment or not at all.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 09, 2009, 04:28:34 PM
I'm pretty sure that you cannot just choose to remove him from the game when you present him in battle. I guess the "Play As" needs to be reworded.

RR's scenario would not work, since his SA would have to take affect upon entering battle, and remove from the game is an instant ability that would have to be carried out at that moment or not at all.
ok, so it would be an instant ability... if it works...
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 09, 2009, 04:33:46 PM
ok, so it would be an instant ability... if it works...

Correct, per the REG list of Instant Abilities -> Discard or Remove.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: The Schaef on March 09, 2009, 04:40:22 PM
This is the worst worded card?  While Helmet of Salvation (Wa) still exists?
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 09, 2009, 05:46:44 PM
it isnt that its badly worded its just kinda confusing all it is saying is he cant be discarded only romoved that pretty powerful cause that means hecant be discarded with doninants.

What is being suggested, though, is that since the SA starts "Enoch may be removed from the game..." that you could choose to remove Enoch yourself, which was not the intent of the card.

So, in theory, you could make a RA, band to your opponent's Enoch, then remove him from the game, and then continue with your RA.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 09, 2009, 06:30:51 PM
This is the worst worded card?  While Helmet of Salvation (Wa) still exists?
not talking about the play as. ok... how can someone be prevented from discard? if that would mean it prevents discards, the why would he return to his territory? and why would it say Enoch may be removed from the game?

Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: MichaelHue on March 09, 2009, 06:53:22 PM
"Enoch may be removed from the game" is not the same as "Holder may remove Enoch from the game."  While I think it would be cool if you could do that, it's not how it works.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 09, 2009, 07:26:22 PM
Although I agree, I still think that a literal translation of the SA could cause confusion and, ultimately, incorrect rulings. Since there is already a "Play As" to clear up the "return Enoch to territory" part, another adjustment to the "Play As" may be prudent.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on March 09, 2009, 07:45:43 PM
Why not just reword it as "Enoch is protected from discard"?

The "may be removed" part is kinda redundant.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: MichaelHue on March 09, 2009, 08:10:49 PM
Why not just reword it as "Enoch is protected from discard"?

The "may be removed" part is kinda redundant.
As is the "return Enoch to territory after battle."  I approve.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on March 09, 2009, 08:28:24 PM
Why not just reword it as "Enoch is protected from discard"?

The "may be removed" part is kinda redundant.
As is the "return Enoch to territory after battle."  I approve.
I disagree.  There are a lot of cards that protect cards from discard abilities (Cov w/ Phin, Alter of I, etc...) but Enoch is the ONLY card who actually cannot be d/c by numbers.  I think the "return to territory" part is a great clarification.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: The Schaef on March 09, 2009, 08:41:23 PM
not talking about the play as. ok... how can someone be prevented from discard? if that would mean it prevents discards, the why would he return to his territory? and why would it say Enoch may be removed from the game?

Who said anything about the Play As?  I'm confused.
Which brings me to my point about Helmet.  How is a Hero immune to Confusion, a card that affects your deck?
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: MichaelHue on March 09, 2009, 10:36:10 PM
not talking about the play as. ok... how can someone be prevented from discard? if that would mean it prevents discards, the why would he return to his territory? and why would it say Enoch may be removed from the game?

Who said anything about the Play As?  I'm confused.
Which brings me to my point about Helmet.  How is a Hero immune to Confusion, a card that affects your deck?
It makes the card "Hero" in your deck immune to Confusion.  However, this effect does not extend to the player or any other cards in that player's draw pile.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on March 09, 2009, 10:37:57 PM
not talking about the play as. ok... how can someone be prevented from discard? if that would mean it prevents discards, the why would he return to his territory? and why would it say Enoch may be removed from the game?

Who said anything about the Play As?  I'm confused.
Which brings me to my point about Helmet.  How is a Hero immune to Confusion, a card that affects your deck?
It makes the card "Hero" in your deck immune to Confusion.  However, this effect does not extend to the player or any other cards in that player's draw pile.
actually, it doesn't because abilities only activate in battle.  Enoch in a deck could be discarded with confusion
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 09, 2009, 11:06:15 PM
Ah my combo didn't work, but with current wording, I can use him + book the cov (Iap/Cov with eden) to have white use Iap, I know I know its not the best combo ever. Im workin on it! its hard to utilize a card that can remove itself.
Title: Re: Enoch... lol, the worst worded card.
Post by: MichaelHue on March 10, 2009, 07:44:15 AM
not talking about the play as. ok... how can someone be prevented from discard? if that would mean it prevents discards, the why would he return to his territory? and why would it say Enoch may be removed from the game?

Who said anything about the Play As?  I'm confused.
Which brings me to my point about Helmet.  How is a Hero immune to Confusion, a card that affects your deck?
It makes the card "Hero" in your deck immune to Confusion.  However, this effect does not extend to the player or any other cards in that player's draw pile.
actually, it doesn't because abilities only activate in battle.  Enoch in a deck could be discarded with confusion
I was j/k.  I was saying that if there was a card titled "Hero" in your draw pile, Helmet would make it immune.  I wasn't talking about Enoch.
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