Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Farmer_Maggot on September 08, 2014, 01:43:37 PM
-
"Holder must discard a demon from holders territory and one hero from each opponent's territory."
Does discarding a hero depend on whether or not they have a demon in play? In other words, if they do not play with demons, do I still get to discard a hero?
-
Yes to discard a hero they must have a demon in territory to discard.
-
Actually, by the way he is worded, there is no 'cost-benefit' relationship between the discards. His ability (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Elymas_(Bar-Jesus)_the_Sorcerer_(Ap)) says 'you must' discard a demon and then that 'you may' discard heroes. There is no "to" for there to be an actual link between any cost and benefit.
Now, the ruling in the past (not made by Elders that I can find?) is that the play-as for this card shows that it is a cost-benefit. However, there is no errata for this card (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/redemption-official-rules/errata-reworded-special-abilities/). Play-as are not the same as errata, they were intended to give more modern wording for older cards. If they change the card, then they do not actually apply. Only an errata can change a card.
Should it be a cost-benefit? Probably yes, that is a silly ability otherwise. However, as it currently stands, it is not. Can we get some Elder input on this? If there is an errata, can we add it to the list?
-
Actually, by the way he is worded, there is no 'cost-benefit' relationship between the discards. His ability (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Elymas_(Bar-Jesus)_the_Sorcerer_(Ap)) says 'you must' discard a demon and then that 'you may' discard heroes. There is no "to" for there to be an actual link between any cost and benefit.
Now, the ruling in the past (not made by Elders that I can find?) is that the play-as for this card shows that it is a cost-benefit. However, there is no errata for this card (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/redemption-official-rules/errata-reworded-special-abilities/). Play-as are not the same as errata, they were intended to give more modern wording for older cards. If they change the card, then they do not actually apply. Only an errata can change a card.
Should it be a cost-benefit? Probably yes, that is a silly ability otherwise. However, as it currently stands, it is not. Can we get some Elder input on this? If there is an errata, can we add it to the list?
Well, considering there is an elder, The Guardian, who uses Elymas in his gray deck due to the odd non-cost-benefit wording I'd say it's safe to assume there's no errata as of now. I've never seen one. I feel like yes, it is a rather odd ability since it's not phrased to be a cost-benefit but if we were to change it I'm pretty sure no one would use it at all.
-
Unless it was errata'd that, if you control a demon than discard a demon in your territory and a hero in each opponant's territories.
That way Wandering Spirit would make him still useful.
-
So...
The demon possession in a territory is not a requirement.
-
Correct, as of now, and we believe that it is elder confirmed since The Guardian has it in his deck.
-
So...
The demon possession in a territory is not a requirement.
We do not need Elder confirmation. As Redoubter stated, without an errata the card is not worded as a cost-benefit. You can discard the heroes even if you do not have any demons.
-
But here you have it anyway: When EBJtS enters battle, you have to discard a demon if you have one in your territory. You also may choose to discard a Hero in everyone else's territory, regardless of whether or not a demon was discarded.
I love drafting him in BD for that very reason :)
-
For those who are curious, when Elymas was first released, it was back in the time when we "interpreted" abilities to do what they were intended to do. Obviously he was intended to be a cost-benefit ability, so that's how he was interpreted and played. (Incidentally, that's the reason Tartaros was given errata that it played to set-aside, which I'm not sure if that is still current or not.)
When we made the decision to eliminate the interpretation of abilities, many cards got weaker, but some--like Elymas--actually got stronger.