Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: sepjazzwarrior on August 08, 2009, 10:06:23 AM
-
do chose the blocker abilities, like ehud and jail, count as adding a character to battle?
-
For what purpose?
-
do chose the blocker abilities, like ehud and jail, count as adding a character to battle?
No. "Choose the Blocker" removes someone from battle and replaces them with someone else. That is more like an "exchange" than an "add to battle."
-
But the other thread says an exchange has to be 1:1. Ehud puts an EC where no EC previously was. Seems like it could be a variant of "add to battle".
-
Post-block CTB (and CTR) would be exchange, I think. I don't know what pre-block CTB would be other than "add to battle".
-
Even though you choose the blocker, the opponent still brings them into battle. So the holder of Ehud did not "add to battle."
-
do chose the blocker abilities, like ehud and jail, count as adding a character to battle?
No. "Choose the Blocker" removes someone from battle and replaces them with someone else. That is more like an "exchange" than an "add to battle."
+1
-
Even though you choose the blocker, the opponent still brings them into battle. So the holder of Ehud did not "add to battle."
UN is still 'add to battle' if an opponent in a multiplayer game adds their character to battle, right? I don't think it matters who adds them to battle, just that a character was.
-
Wait, in a multiplayer game, if Player A makes a RA against Player B, then Player C cannot bring in an EC with UN since UN does not say "an opponent's."
-
Eh, good call. Something seemed too convenient in that example.
However, I still don't think it matters who adds them to battle, just that a character was.
-
Gabe had the right response in the first place. We need to know the situation before we can answer accurately.
-
"Choose the blocker" is not considered adding a character into battle. Althought not stated in specific terms, "adding a character" in game terms is associated with adding more characters to your side of the battle, and "choose the blocker" is putting or replacing a character on the other side.
Mike
-
So Siege adds evil characters to battle, but doesn't add heroes to battle?
-
One instance where CTB is "classified" as "add to battle" is in the order of abilities.
-
the reason i ask is because i was wondering if you placed and enhancement on ehud if it would activate before or after he chose the character that would block.
-
I believe the following order is followed in the battle phase:
1) Hero leaves hand or territory
2) Hero enters Field of Battle
3) Activate special ability on Hero
4) Activate gained abilities
5) Activate weapon-class abilities
6) Activate banding abilities
7) Activate choose the blocker abilities
8) Activate special abilities triggered by the beginning of battle
9) Declaration of intent (i.e., battle challenge or rescue attempt)
Cards placed on Ehud would fall under 3). As you can see, choose the blocker comes later under 7).
Mike
-
but a enhancement played on a hero isnt part of the heros special ability is it? the SA on the enhancement is different from the SA of the hero or are they treated as one big special ability, and if so then that part of the REG sould say something like "activate special on good cards in battle"
-
A "placed" card is part of the 5) category. Weapon-class cards are placed cards of a particular type. You are correct - I missed a step.
Mike
-
but a enhancement played on a hero isnt part of the heros special ability is it? the SA on the enhancement is different from the SA of the hero or are they treated as one big special ability, and if so then that part of the REG sould say something like "activate special on good cards in battle"
I think you would agree that a placed card fits somewhere around gained abilities and weapon-class abilities in general, right? No matter how you look at it, CTB would come later.
-
thats what i thought, i just was looking at the REG and it didnt specify where placed enhancements fit in, so while its being updated, maybe add that placed enhancements activate the same time as weapon-class enhancements to clarify further
-
3) Activate special ability on Hero
9) Declaration of intent (i.e., battle challenge or rescue attempt)
There goes Ahimazz + CoF/IaP.
Are you absolutely sure on these, especially the last one?
-
Can you explain what you mean?
Mike
-
if you withdraw before it's a BC/RA then COF/IAP can't activate
-
I'm not exactly sure how this ties in but I think these 2 things are relevant:
1 - Rob ruled that Seeker of the Lost and Hur will not be able to generate the LS that they rescue in T2 (rescuer's choice). I thought that the reasoning was that you declared the LS before Hero abilities activate. I could be wrong on the reasoning but from your list it looks to me like Hur/Seeker should work.
2 - An Enhancement placed by someone like Agur or Elishana the Priest is an ability that triggers when the Hero enters battle, similar to the way Hidden Treasures triggers, isn't it? Wouldn't that put those under #8? Is there a difference between "hero enters battle" and "hero beggins a battle" that I'm missing?
Agur
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 8 / 9 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may place an O.T. Enhancement from hand (or discard pile if Book of the Law is active) on a human Hero of matching brigade in your territory. The next time that Hero enters battle, that Enhancement activates and is discarded immediately.
Hidden Treasures
Type: Artifact • Brigade: • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle, you may play an Enhancement or discard an evil Enhancement in an opponent's deck.
-
so would that mean ehuds ability would activate before the placed enhancement? becasue his SA would be a 3 and the enhancement would be an 8
-
The CTB part of his SA would be a 7 (the rest would be a 3), which would still be before the enhancement at 8, if that's where placed enhancements fall.
-
so would that mean ehuds ability would activate before the placed enhancement? becasue his SA would be a 3 and the enhancement would be an 8
If my understanding is correct, then yes. Generally speaking, Mike has a much better grasp on the rules than I do, so I wouldn't bet the farm that I understand this correctly. He is the keeper of the REG after all. :)
-
I don't think that placed abilities are at #8. Gabe's examples represent scenarios that fit under #8, but most placed cards are not triggered. They are just there. That seems more like a gained ability.
sepjazz, consider a gained ability that lets you CTB. That would fall under #7, not #4.
-
Except I know for a fact that it was ruled that placed enhs such as those from Agur activate at the same time as WC enhs.
Also, Chris got exactly what I meant with Ahimaaz. If I decide BC/RA AFTER his ability, then those combos are dead. I've always thought that the declaration of intent came first and foremost.
I don't think that placed abilities are at #8. Gabe's examples represent scenarios that fit under #8, but most placed cards are not triggered. They are just there. That seems more like a gained ability.
sepjazz, consider a gained ability that lets you CTB. That would fall under #7, not #4.
Nope, its still a CTB ability, so it goes later.
-
Nope, its still a CTB ability, so it goes later.
That's what I said.
-
but that seems to go against the wording on the card if it activates as a weapon, its says on augr the enhancement activates when the character enters battle, which by no streatch of the imagination falls directly into a 8
-
Nope, its still a CTB ability, so it goes later.
That's what I said.
Misread it, my bad.
-
I've always thought that the declaration of intent came first and foremost.
I've always thought the same thing as well. In fact, declaration of intent would have to come first for combos like Hidden Treasures - Prophet - ANB to work. We all know how well that works...
Now that I think about it though, cards such as Great Mourning and Besieging the City specifically disallow Rescue Attempts while letting battle challenges get through. If declaration of intent happened first, then sticky situations like Mahari going out as a BC against the NT only then banding claudia in to make it a Rescue attempt would work even if Great Mourning had been played...
-
but that seems to go against the wording on the card if it activates as a weapon, its says on augr the enhancement activates when the character enters battle, which by no streatch of the imagination falls directly into a 8
Understand that this an order of operations that was devised by mathematicians in the early 17th Century.
The wording of the card is not what is relevant (per se). The type of ability is what matters. For example, if a banding hero enters battle with a weapon, logically the banding should come before the weapon since the banding is the hero's SA (#3). However, the PTBs decided that banding abilities come after weapon abilities. So the hero's SA is suspended until its designated time.
-
but wouldnt the wording on agur superseed the game rule and let the enhancement activate as a 8 like its SA would suggest just like high priests palace protect saducces from being discarded by a game rule
-
This may just be a question of semantics, but I see no difference between "when hero enters battle" and "abilities triggered by the beginning of battle." All abilities still have to activate when that hero enters and begins a battle. The order that they activate is clearly laid out.
-
i was thinking they would mean the same thing, but if thee is a difference between the 2 and the mean something different show how they are different. my argument is based on them meaning the same thing and if they dont then the 3 just needs to be changed to include placed enhancements and WC enhancements and we have no problem
-
Therein lies the problem. Your quick fix is not going to work, because some placed abilities are triggered by "beginning or entering battle," which forces them down to #8.
-
but that would be a good thing for my combo, ehud would chose with his 7 SA then kill with the 8 enhancement, thats what i want to work
-
Well, I want my Jacob's Ladder to allow me to rescue my own Lost Souls, but it just doesn't work that way. Sorry. ;)
-
this doesnt have to be another jacobs ladder, so until someone with authority says that it doesnt work then it remains unruled officially.
-
this doesnt have to be another jacobs ladder, so until someone with authority says that it doesnt work then it remains unruled officially.
Tournament hosts have authority. It would do you well to listen to them, since they're the ones who will have to rule at tournaments. ;)
And I just realized that sounds kind of arrogant. lol I'm just saying that I agree with YourMathTeacher.
-
Although I thank you for your support, I can only make rulings at my own tournaments that are official.
However, sepjazz, you will have to specifically state what placed card you are talking about and how it got there, before any official ruling can be made.
-
2 - An Enhancement placed by someone like Agur or Elishana the Priest is an ability that triggers when the Hero enters battle, similar to the way Hidden Treasures triggers, isn't it? Wouldn't that put those under #8? Is there a difference between "hero enters battle" and "hero beggins a battle" that I'm missing?
Bumping this back to the top of the discussion, because this can make a huge difference.
Agur and co. all say "When hero enters battle" I think entering battle is what triggers ALL of his abilities, and then cards like HT trigger because once the heroes abilitys have completed, he has "begun the battle."
So, i'd organize the list like so:
1. Declaration of Intent
2. Hero leaves hand or territory
3. Hero enters Field of Battle, all SA's and placed cards activate in this order:
A. Activate special ability on Hero, unless they add characters to battle.
B. Activate gained abilities, unless they add characters to battle.
C. Activate weapon-class abilities (none add characters to battle that I can think of)
D. Activate Placed Enhancements, unless they add characters to battle.
E. Activate banding abilities
F. Activate choose the blocker abilities
G. Activate special abilities triggered by the beginning of battle, such as HT.
That is how I've always played the order of abilities.
-
Since this has become a "how do you think Redemption should work" type thread, I might as well post what I think it should do.
1. Present the Hero
2. Declare the intention
3. Activate Hero abilities
a. special abilites on the hero,including gained abilities, excluding CtB and Banding
b. Weapons and other placed abilities (i.e Elishana)
c. Banding
d. Choose the blocker.
e. move on to the next hero and restart at 3, a. (if there are more multiple heroes in battle)
4. Activate triggers (Hidden Treasures, etc)
-
The only problem that I have with that is all of the placement cards are worded in such a way that the enhancement triggers upon the beginning of battle which makes them a G type special ability.
Also two scenario's to consider:
Scenario 1:
Rescue with ET and Play Unified Kingdom, all the heroes enter battle, among them is Jacob. Becuase I choose the order to activate special abilites I play Obediance of Noah off of Jacob. Is Obediance shunted down to F, or because its played off Jacob is it under his Umbrella of A type abilities?
Scenario 2:
You played Great Mourning against me.
Because Declaration of Intent comes first I choose the N.T. soul, then push Maharai into battle, this is legal because its not a rescue attempt but a battle challenge, Then using Maharai I band in Claudai making it a Rescue attempt, circumventing Great Mourning.
EDIT: Got Instaposted, this is directed towards Lamborghini's Order of Ops.
Additionally because all of these are a series of Operations which you do for each individual hero, when I play a mass band card like Unified Kingdom, there is nothing that stops me from choosing Ehud as the first hero, then Michael as the second, using Angel's Sword to Play Striking Herod and killing the EC.
-
Sepjazz may have been right earlier in the thread: Placed cards need to be added to the Order of Operations for clarity. I always just based their activation on the type of ability, but if there is this much uncertainty, then clarification is necessary.
-
The only problem that I have with that is all of the placement cards are worded in such a way that the enhancement triggers upon the beginning of battle which makes them a G type special ability.
No they arent. The following is taken straight from those cards: "The next time that Hero enters battle that enhancement activates and is discarded immediately."
It says enter battle, not begins battle. So, it activates around step D in my list.
Scenario 1:
Rescue with ET and Play Unified Kingdom, all the heroes enter battle, among them is Jacob. Becuase I choose the order to activate special abilites I play Obediance of Noah off of Jacob. Is Obediance shunted down to F, or because its played off Jacob is it under his Umbrella of A type abilities?
My list is for just a single card with multiple abilities. Besides, with jacob, Obediance would be the last card to activate for HIS order of abilities. Then, you would band in another character after his abilities finish, including Obed. I would see playing a mass band enhancement as a viable method to CTB and then play a card afterwards.
You played Great Mourning against me.
Because Declaration of Intent comes first I choose the N.T. soul, then push Maharai into battle, this is legal because its not a rescue attempt but a battle challenge, Then using Maharai I band in Claudai making it a Rescue attempt, circumventing Great Mourning.
Issue, I said Declaration of Intent comes first. If what I listed is true, then you wouldnt even be allowed to SAY "im going for the NT soul." GM says you cannot make a RA, so you cannot DECLARE a soul is to be rescued at all, meaning you could ONLY enter battle with a battle challenge. So this point is null.
Additionally because all of these are a series of Operations which you do for each individual hero, when I play a mass band card like Unified Kingdom, there is nothing that stops me from choosing Ehud as the first hero, then Michael as the second, using Angel's Sword to Play Striking Herod and killing the EC.
Yes, I see banding Ehud in first, and then Michael second to be a viable way to do this. I actually had a combo built around that.
Sepjazz may have been right earlier in the thread: Placed cards need to be added to the Order of Operations for clarity. I always just based their activation on the type of ability, but if there is this much uncertainty, then clarification is necessary.
I've been saying that for a long time now.
-
I've been saying that for a long time now.
Nice try, but I'm giving all the credit to Sepjazz and there's nothing you can do about it. :P
-
But wait! I haz proofs!
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12931.0 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=12931.0)
Almost a year earlier.
-
I had thought that we had established that Enters the battle and Begin a battle were the same, Thats how I've always understood it, if they're not then I think your order works. And theres no reason why I can't go for the N.T. soul with Maharai as a battle challenge, under the current rule system that is legal, (or at least in MN it is....)
-
If you go for a battle challenge then you opt to not rescue a soul. Even if I'm wrong on that point, Great Mourning would not let you change the battle from a BC to a RA.
Also, I am almost 99.6% sure that Enters battle and Begins battle are two different things. I know this because I've abused Provisions + Hidden Treasures to CTB and then play cards. I've had that ruled to be legal, so I'm pretty sure that "begins the battle" is the last thing to activate, while anything on the hero activates the instant he enters battle.
-
I still disagree on Great Mourning, based upon the Burial Shroud conclusion. Activating Burial Shroud with Meal in Emmaus during a rescue attempt still allows a soul to be rescued based upon that thread (Which I can't seem to find...) Also Game rule says that a Battle can change between a rescue and a battle challenge any number of times during the battle phase (Much to the disdain of Site Players like me....)
Oh, and I'm still not convinced, that Begin and Enter battle are different, the hero hasn't entered battle until all abilities complete, (Game rule I'm pretty sure)
-
But how is a battle allowed to turn into a RA when Great Mourning clearly states otherwise?
Regardless, thats an argument for another thread. :D
*edit*
I know for an absolute fact that "begins battle" is the last thing to activate. Schaef said in another thread that Entering battle and activating abilities happen at the exact same instant.
I propose you this question then. Could I "begin a battle" with a lone green prophet, who just happens to have a banding ability. According to you, the instant he enters battle, I can use HT, and then band.
They decided that Begins Battle comes last so you can't abuse banding with cards like HT.
-
Right, I agree with you completely with Begining a battle coming last, and I was 99.9% sure that Enter battle was the same as begining a battle. Could you pull the thread were Schaef says its not? Because I've always heard it ruled they were the same (From Chris, YMT etc.)
Also looking not at the game at all, doesn't it just make logical sense when you look at the two phrases Enter Battle and Begin Battle, don't they just seem to mean the same thing?
-
Not at all. I see Entering Battle as physically walking into battle, and Beginning Battle as having taken the first shot.
-
Very well, I see your point. I have no idea now.
-
Welcome to Redemption.
-
Welcome to Redemption.
:rollin:
-
I brushed over the main post in this thread and I have a question. What is the danger of this? I know there has to be something because it is just to obvious.
1. Push hero in battle and declare intent
2. Activate hero sa simultaneously
3. Activate, placed enhancements, gained abilities,
4. Activate weapons on hero.
5. Lather rinse repeat and hope it's legal.
Then you check other triggers.
There has to be a major problem, but this setup calms my brain atm.
Welcome to Redemption.
And we wonder why people lose interest ::)
-
There has to be a major problem,
and hope it's legal.
Found the problem.
-
I brushed over the main post in this thread and I have a question. What is the danger of this? I know there has to be something because it is just to obvious.
1. Push hero in battle and declare intent
2. Activate hero sa simultaneously
3. Activate, placed enhancements, gained abilities,
4. Activate weapons on hero.
5. Lather rinse repeat and hope it's legal.
There has to be a major problem, but this setup calms my brain atm.
I'd put weapons first, but the only situation where order might matter is if say, you placed a search enhancement, and the hero had 2kh converted on him, allowing him to play it.
Now that I think about it, there is absolutely NOTHING stating if placed enhs come before or after WC enhs. We reeeeallly need some rules written down for these cards.
-
The comments I am finding helpful in this thread is the push to get the detailed order of starting a battle clarified. What I put in the REG a couple years ago worked back then, but it's obvious it needs to be updated. I need time to look more carefully at what was said. I'll be back.
Mike
-
That's all most of us are looking for. Ever since the inception of placed enhancements, it's been foggy, but the lack of necessary clarification has made teh point pretty moot. Now that there's cool stuff to do, we need to iron this out.
-
There has to be a major problem,
and hope it's legal.
Found the problem.
I ment problems in the card play because of it.
-
Yeah, definately try to talk with the other Powers that Be, especially Rob, and see if you guys can all come to a conclusion for the following question:
At which point in the order of abilities for a single card does a placed enhancement activate?
As I have said before, my gut tells me that it comes just after WC enhancements, but I have nothing to prove it.
-
Also needing clarification is Enter Battle VS Begin Battle, ironing that out too would be swell mike,
Thanks!
-
As said, I know that one has been ruled before. I just don't know if those threads exist anymore.
-
Well right, its been ruled before, but the threads are gone, and I'm fairly certain based upon the fact that both of us are convinced that we're right, that its been ruled both ways.
-
Either that or I'm just right. Cuz im cool like that. 8)
-
Right,
But I Placed at Natz!!
Which is worth nothing in the long and short of it... ;)
-
I'll settle this:
You're both wrong. ;)
-
It seems to me the real question is if you preload Samsons Sacrifice on Ehud would he kill him self before he choses the blocker. The answer is yes.
-
Well, thats exactly what we're debating here - Does that placed enhancement activate before or after Ehud. (In an Ideal world, and how it will be ruled eventually is before) However I'm (and other people) still aren't convinced that it doesn't happen til after.
-
closest I have to direct proof:
--question 1 of 2-- Which activates first? Jacobs ability, or the enhancement placed on him?
[THE ENHANCEMENT, UNLESS THE ENHANCEMENT ADDS A CHARACTER TO BATTLE, IN WHICH CASE IT HAPPENS AFTER THE BAND]
from a PM.
-
but if you place the enhancement with agur, his SA says the enhancement activates when the character enters battle, which would put in after chose the blocker SA activate
-
no... all the SA's activate when he enters. Placed ehns function kinda like they are part of the character... see WC enhs.
-
1) Hero leaves hand or territory
2) Hero enters Field of Battle
3) Activate special ability on Hero
4) Activate gained abilities
5) Activate weapon-class abilities
6) Activate banding abilities
7) Activate choose the blocker abilities
8) Activate special abilities triggered by the beginning of battle
9) Declaration of intent (i.e., battle challenge or rescue attempt)
Agur
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 8 / 9 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may place an O.T. Enhancement from hand (or discard pile if Book of the Law is active) on a human Hero of matching brigade in your territory. The next time that Hero enters battle, that Enhancement activates and is discarded immediately.
enh placed by agur activate when the character enters battle as specified by his SA. SA superseed game rules, so the activate as an 8. what it comes down to is if "beginning of battle" and "hero enters battle" mean the same thing
-
I've said it before and that quote even says it.
The card says enter battle... guess what step ENTERING the battle is?
2) Hero enters Field of Battle
-
No, under the current rule system Placed Ehns do not function like WC enhs, they are placed under specific criteria, and they activate under specific criteria.
Also, I'm going to go mildly off tangent here and propose my system.
I believe we (Redemption) need to move away from using the word "Activate" when describing the order of operations, and move instead to the word "Trigger" I feel this will lessen confusion.
In addition, instead of an Order of Operations per say, I propose an ordered cue system, which would work like follows.
You push a hero into battle, say ET, his ability triggers, because it is the only ability triggering, naturally it gets to go first - He plays Unified Kingdom, now here's where the real benefit of my system comes in.
All these hero's enter battle say like 10 or 15. two of them have placed cards, one has a warrior class enhancement.
All the cards Trigger at the same time (you can look at this like the all wave their hands saying I get to activate)
Then you look and say ok, all the heroes are level 1 abilities (step 3 in the current system)
Then the warrior class enhancement is a level 2 ability
The placed cards are level 3 abilities.
So all the cards are triggered then all the level one abilities complete in the order that holder chooses. say Jacob was in battle, as a banding card he becomes a level 4 ability.
Then you move to the level two cards (The warrior class enhancement) it activates.
Next we come to level 3 abilities - Placed cards, of the two enhancements one is a CTB, one a Battle winner, So the battle winner can go here, however the CTB says oh wait, I'm actually a level 9 ability I'll wait. And so on and so forth.
Do you see how this could simplify matters, where you consider everything in steps where different abilities are considered rather than considering types of cards?
I'd love to take credit for this whole system but only about half of it was mine, Hanno102 helped me through the particulars. (Yes this is similar to what MTG does, but their system seems to work exceptionally well.)
Thanks,
RDT
-
That system is basicly the exact same thing we have, just worded different. I see nothing wrong with the current system.
-
I think choose the blocker should happen when the blocker would normally be put in battle, therefore getting rid of the choose the blocker issue.
Something like you choose the blocker when the ability activates (or triggers or whatever you want to call it) and then when the evil character would normally come it that is when the character is brought into battle (this only applies to pre-block choose the blockers)
-
I think choose the blocker should happen when the blocker would normally be put in battle, therefore getting rid of the choose the blocker issue.
Something like you choose the blocker when the ability activates (or triggers or whatever you want to call it) and then when the evil character would normally come it that is when the character is brought into battle (this only applies to pre-block choose the blockers)
Again, that IS how it works. CTB are always the last thing to activate. The only situation that I'm now not totally sure of is Mass Banding. I said earlier that I thought it worked, but I'm not 100% sure on that. However, I know for a fact that unless you mass band, CTB will ALWAYS be the last thing to kick in.
-
What wrong with the current system is that it raises questions constantly, my system clearly lays out each type of ability rather than each card, which makes it easier to understand. (IMO)
If Redemption had a Warrior Class enhancement that added a character to battle, it would activate in step 5 right? Wrong - It would activate in step 7, or at least it would be ruled that way.
Under my system there would be no question, it would be a level 9 ability and would activate last. (I still haven't ironed out all the scenario's and details with my system)
-
What is hard to understand about "Do this, unless it does this"?
The only lack of clarity in this system is regarding Placed Enhancements, which should be cleared up soon.
-
Whats so hard about it is for newer players, I can't count the number of times when I've had to explain why something doesn't work the way they think it does, its kind of like the classic "But SoG says Any soul why can't it rescue the N.T.?"
-
The latter example I can agree is a little strange to explain, but thats the nature of games like these.
However, the REG clearly explains...
http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/gloss_specialabilities.htm (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/gloss_specialabilities.htm)
There are two types of special abilities that define how a special ability is carried out: Ongoing Abilities and Instant Abilities. When a single card has more than one special ability (including gained abilities), and an order is not specified, perform the abilities in this order:
• First, complete all special abilities in the order written on the card except those that add a character to the battle (banding abilities). Note that some special abilities can happen together even though they may be separated by a period (e.g., Authority of Christ promo). Second, if the card is a character with either a gained ability or a weapon-class enhancement, then activate the gained abilities in the order gained. Finally, activate the special abilities on the carried weapon-class enhancement.
• Complete banding abilities.
• Complete any Choose Blocker or Rescuer abilities.
All we need to do is add where Placed Enhancements activate, and all is well and dandy.
-
Hey,
When a character enters battle, abilities on that character activate, abilities gained by that character activate, abilities on a weapon held by that character activate; abilities on cards placed on that character do not activate.
If I play Melchizedek's Blessing in battle and place it on Joshua the High Priest in my territory, when Joshua next enters battle Melchizedek's blessing does not activate again and get placed on someone else.
An enhancement placed by Agur does not activate when it enters battle. An enhancement placed by Agur activates when the ability "The next time that hero enters battle, that enhancement activates" is triggered.
Anything that activates at the beginning of battle must be carried out before anything that is triggered by the beginning of battle can be carried out. (This is actually true in a more general sense. If an action both activates one or more abilities and triggers one or more abilities the abilities that activate must be addressed first and only after all of those have been addressed can any triggered abilities be addressed.)
This is why Hidden Treasures happens after Provisions, because Hidden Treasures is triggered and Provisions is activated. In the same way Ehud's choose the blocker ability activates when he enters battle, an enhancement placed on Ehud by Agur is triggered when Ehud enters battle. So Ehud's choose the blocker happens before the enhancement happens.
If you prefer to look at it as a sequence of events that happens at the beginning of battle, the proper sequence is...
0- If playing with rescuer's choice, declare which soul you are going for. If playing a multiplayer game, declare which opponent you are attacking.
1- Hero leaves hand or territory
2- Hero enters Field of Battle (the character "enters battle" and the "beginning of battle" both occur at this point)
3- Activate special ability on Hero
4- Activate gained abilities
5- Activate weapon-class abilities
6- Activate banding abilities
7- Activate choose the blocker abilities
8- Activate abilities triggered by 0-7
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly