Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: sepjazzwarrior on May 09, 2017, 08:14:44 AM
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So there is a LS that lets you place an EC on a site and band it into battle when opponent makes a RA at the site. What happens if the LS gets removed from the site? The LS is rescued by SoG? The LS is negated by Moses? If there is no LS in the site and the EC is still there and you use the site for access later, what happens to the EC? Thanks
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The EC is still there and can be used if you put another soul in it. If the site gets removed from play I believe the EC placed on it should follow it.
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so even though the ability that lets the EC enter battle is no longer there/is negated, the EC can still enter battle?
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It's like an ec in your hand at that point
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how so? the original ability allows you to add it to battle when opponent has access to the site. its only the ability that allows you to have the EC enter battle.
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It's an ongoing add to battle ability which can only activate, like you will remain, while it is in play and not negated
When the soul goes away the ec stays in your terroritory but is technically out of play like a face down artifact. You can still use it similarly to blocking from hand but the add to battle is no longer an option
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So there is a LS that lets you place an EC on a site and band it into battle when opponent makes a RA at the site. What happens if the LS gets removed from the site? The LS is rescued by SoG? The LS is negated by Moses? If there is no LS in the site and the EC is still there and you use the site for access later, what happens to the EC? Thanks
Removed from Site or Rescued: EC sits there facedown. It can only be targeted by a card that targets facedown cards and it cannot be used to block unless another LS is placed at the Site. As a placed card, it would follow the Site.
If the LS is negated in the same phase, the EC would return to hand. If it's a later phase, then the EC could not block (it would just sit there until the LS was no longer negated).
If the Site was empty (with a facedown EC) and used for access, the EC would be "in battle" but would have no bearing on the battle.
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so kariusvega are you saying you can block with the facedown EC as if from hand whenever you want?
why does putting another LS in the site then allow you to block with the EC? The ability that allows you to block with the EC is from the previous LS, not the new one. Are you saying the ability to block follows the facedown EC and not the LS it came from?
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so kariusvega are you saying you can block with the facedown EC as if from hand whenever you want?
why does putting another LS in the site then allow you to block with the EC? The ability that allows you to block with the EC is from the previous LS, not the new one. Are you saying the ability to block follows the facedown EC and not the LS it came from?
it doesn't, it would have to be the same lost soul to trigger the ability once again. correct.
no. the ability to add to battle is it's own on going ability similar to you will remain. i was merely pointing out that once the lost soul is gone your ec is not stuck in limbo- you can use it to block as you would blocking with an ec from hand or territory etc it just won't be targeted as an ec in play for general purposes if it was hit by say aocp
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it doesn't, it would have to be the same lost soul to trigger the ability once again. correct.
no. the ability to add to battle is it's own on going ability similar to you will remain. i was merely pointing out that once the lost soul is gone your ec is not stuck in limbo- you can use it to block as you would blocking with an ec from hand or territory etc it just won't be targeted as an ec in play for general purposes if it was hit by say aocp
I think we have different understandings of how that LS works.
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it cannot be used to block unless another LS is placed at the Site
I recall this being a discussion a while ago and it came out on the side of still being able to block normally with the sequestered EC.
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so with the LS still in the site and no access could you still block normally, just not add the EC to battle at any time?
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I'm saying definitely yes
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TLDR; The Guardian is 100% accurate in his ruling. Some of the comments made by JD are inaccurate and should be disregarded.
When you place this card in a Site, you may put an Evil Character face down from hand, The Darkness or Tartaros on that Site. During a rescue attempt at that Site, you may add that Character to the battle.
This Lost Soul creates some situations that can be difficult to understand. If it were written today it would probably be worded more like this.
If you put this card in a Site, you may place an Evil Character face down from hand, The Darkness or Tartaros on that Site: At any time during a rescue attempt at that Site, you may add that character to battle.
The first part of the ability allows the Evil Character to be placed on a Site. As long as it remains placed everything in the second part (after the colon in the example SA) is active. That's the part that I think might be misunderstood.
In order to be able to add the character to battle a couple conditions must be met. 1) There must be a rescue attempt taking place 2) a Hero in battle has to have access to the Site. If both of those conditions aren't being met then the Evil Character can do nothing.
Lost Souls are only active while in play. If the Lost Soul is rescued the Evil Character will remain placed (an instant ability completed in a previous phase) but will not be able to be added to the battle (an ongoing ability tied to the Lost Soul being active).
The REG entry for Place tells us that "Placed cards remain where they are placed indefinitely." so you may not "unplace" the face down character to block with it as if it was in your hand or territory.
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So just to clarify, if the LS is negated (at least a phase after the EC was placed) or rescued/buried, the EC cannot be added to battle, correct?
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So just to clarify, if the LS is negated (at least a phase after the EC was placed) or rescued/buried, the EC cannot be added to battle, correct?
Correct, at least not while the Lost Soul remains negated.
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Asked these questions before
http://www.cactusforums.com/ruling-questions/site-guard-lost-soul-35998/msg544625/#msg544625 (http://www.cactusforums.com/ruling-questions/site-guard-lost-soul-35998/msg544625/#msg544625)
Is it still stuck placed if the site goes away, for example placed on new Jerusalem, it becomes bride of Christ
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Asked these questions before
http://www.cactusforums.com/ruling-questions/site-guard-lost-soul-35998/msg544625/#msg544625 (http://www.cactusforums.com/ruling-questions/site-guard-lost-soul-35998/msg544625/#msg544625)
There are a number of inaccurate statements made in that thread which I addressed above while citing the rules that pertain to them. The rules for placed cards have not been updated since 2015, prior to the discussion you linked.
Is it still stuck placed if the site goes away
Placed cards follow the card they are placed upon.
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So new Jerusalem with no soul in it goes into battle or can it even be put into battle with the ec stuck on it is it still in your lob?
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So new Jerusalem with no soul in it goes into battle or can it even be put into battle with the ec stuck on it is it still in your lob?
The Guardian already answer that question, didn't he?
If the Site was empty (with a facedown EC) and used for access, the EC would be "in battle" but would have no bearing on the battle.
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3 elders answered my questions before to the contrary so I guess stuck is the current ruling
I do want to point out word of mouth in the case of special initiative seems to trump the reg. Wouldn't be the first time considering select isn't a special ability but neither is tear this card in half for plot
And to clarify I was referring to if the site is converted what happens to the ec then it cannot continuously be placed to a new card
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I do want to point out word of mouth in the case of special initiative seems to trump the reg. Wouldn't be the first time considering select isn't a special ability but neither is tear this card in half for plot
Huh? Select is an english word that is used for exactly what it means--same with "tear in half."
And to clarify I was referring to if the site is converted what happens to the ec then it cannot continuously be placed to a new card
Evil cards are placed on Heroes all the time--this one would just happen to be face down.
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Pointing out other things you don't agree with or feel are inconsistent does not justify going against the written rules in other situations.
I do want to point out word of mouth in the case of special initiative seems to trump the reg.
Special initiative works correctly as it's written in the REG. You've taken something that you overheard the elders talking about and blown it out of proportion. Yes, we might clarify the language in V5.0 (the after Nats release) but it functions correctly as it's currently written.
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Right but if it follows the card and it becomes a new card which is why the convert abilities on the new sites are cbi how is the ec still stuck to it
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Right but if it follows the card and it becomes a new card which is why the convert abilities on the new sites are cbi how is the ec still stuck to it
The REG entry for Place tells us that "Placed cards remain where they are placed indefinitely."
It doesn't feel like you're trying to understand this, JD. Only arguing. You have a ruling from two elders. You probably won't get another reply from me here. Give me a call if you seriously don't understand something.
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So does the ec stay stuck to the new card?
Sorry it's so confusing for me.. you can say select or tear had no logical function outside of understood language, but how does a programmed game state understand it as anything but?
Keep in mind this is why I want the game programmed.. you will never have to answer these questions again when it is simply happening or not based solely on programmed function
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So does the ec stay stuck to the new card?
That is what everyone is trying to tell you, yes.
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Okay so it does not fall off like a weapon would or any other placed card specifying what kind of card type it may be placed on?
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Okay so it does not fall off like a weapon would or any other placed card specifying what kind of card type it may be placed on?
Weapons are not the same as placed cards necessary. Let's not muddy the waters by mixing the two. A placed card stays where it's placed indefinitely until a special ability or game rule removes it from the location it's placed. There are exceptions to that which can be found in the REG.
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Okay so it does not fall off like a weapon would or any other placed card specifying what kind of card type it may be placed on?
Weapons are not placed enhancements so I'm confused as to what placed cards you think fall off? I don't see anything about placed cards "falling off" under any circumstances in the REG.