Cactus Game Design Message Boards

can dragon raid actually kill a face down ec on a site im getting mixed replys need something official please

Since Dragon Raid specifies a location more specific than just "in play," wouldn't it go beyond the default? If that's the case, then it does handle face-down ECs.

My precedent is Lampstand of the Sanctuary. Because it specifies "not in battle," it doesn't use the default and instead protects things like the Land of Redemption and hand as well.

I may be crazy.

I apologize for my hyperbole/references to songs I don't like.

The REG says: "Unless specifically stated, all special abilities apply to the characters in play, not out of play."
And: "Cards that are placed face down are considered out of play.  Only special abilities that specifically target “face down” cards apply to cards that are face down."

This much we know. Two questions then:
1) Does Dragon Raid's "in one site" count as something "specifically stated" and allow it to target out-of-play cards in a site?
2) Even if so, does the second quote mean that face-down cards are so special that unless Dragon Raid said "face-down," it couldn't target them anyways?

If the card is face down, how would you know it is "evil?"

I think that we need some type of clarification about what is allowed to target face-down cards other than cards that specify "face down."

I may be crazy.

But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for...

I got your reference.

But I always assumed that since it specified ALL evil cards on a site, then face-down evil cards would apply. And regarding the question how would you know, well consider that the evil character is face down there due to a special ability, and you'll be aware of what the special ability says. Ergo, you'll be able to know if it's an evil card or not.

yeah to perg or not to perg ah the great purple site of doom lol

That I can agree with, but then the REG needs to be slightly adjusted to allow special circumstances that don't specifically say "face down."

When a hero is set aside with Ambush, they are able to begin a rescue because it is "known" that they are a hero.  It think it is simply "known" that it is an EC on the site -- especially since I can't think of any cards that allow anything else to be placed on a site face down -- and thus is known to be a legal target for DragonRaid.

Interestingly, the REG says that face-down ECs don't count for Silly Women.

Well I know it technically should be discarded b/c it is an evil card. But the REG is so specific a discard ability MUST say "face down" for it to be able to discard a face down card and it doesn't matter whether or not you know what to face down card is or not.

Quote from: FresnoRedemption on August 14, 2009, 11:47:16 AM

And you're going to know that the face-down card on the site is an evil card.

The Silly Women ruling would suggest that "knowing" it is an EC is irrelevant.

Well, that was more-so to indicate that to the best of my knowledge, you will always know which alignment a face-down card is going to be due to the special ability on the card bringing the face-down card to the table.

Silly Women

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Pale Green • Ability: * / * • Class: None • Special Ability: Character's abilities (*/*) are equal to the number of all Evil Characters in play. • Identifiers: Generic NT Female Human • Verse: II Timothy 3:6-7 • Availability: Women booster packs (Uncommon)

That's why Silly Women is different. Face down cards are not in play. However, I would say that since Dragon Raid mentions a specific location (a site), it doesn't default to in play, and can target face down EC's. Though, I admit face down EC's might be a bit more of a viable strategy if it didn't.
 

Hey,

Quote from: TimMierz on August 13, 2009, 09:19:35 AM

The REG says: ... "Cards that are placed face down are considered out of play.  Only special abilities that specifically target “face down” cards apply to cards that are face down."

Does Dragon Raid specifically target "face down" cards?  No.  So can Dragon Raid target a "face down" card?  No.

Seems pretty simple to me.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

  That is what I've been saying all along!

ANB should be banned...it just causes so much trouble.  Though I think this one is easy!

A New Beginning:
"ALL players shuffle ALL cards in the field of play, set-aside areas and their hands back into their draw pile. Only cards in Land of Redemption and discard piles remain. ALL players Draw 8 new cards. Holder may begin a new turn"

Only cards in LoR and discard piles remain...are face down artifacts either one of those? No, so they get shuffled.

I see what your point is but I think they are two completely different situations...I don't think you can compare ANB to any other situation because it is a card like none other with an ability completely unique to itself.

I am just saying I don't think there can be a comparison made between ANB and any other card. That is how I view that card.

haha ok you got me there 

So which is it? O_o; Can an "All" ability beat out an out of play rule?

If a Face-down card can start a Rescue attempt (which is something only heroes can do) via Ambush, then I think they do keep alignments.

I know ANB shuffles face down stuff because it just says "all cards," and a face down card is still a card.

To be fair, ANB says "ALL cards."  Perhaps the all-caps bypasses the game rule? 

Hey,

Authority of Christ doesn't discard a face down evil character in The Darkness even though it says "all."  Dragon Raid doesn't discard a face down evil character on a site even though it says "all."

The "Only cards in Land of Redemption and Discard Pile remain" clause on A New Beginning is the excuse we're going to use for why A New Beginning gets face down cards when other cards don't.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

The "Only cards in Land of Redemption and Discard Pile remain" clause on A New Beginning is the excuse we're going to use for why A New Beginning gets face down cards when other cards don't.

So if that one clause is the reason, and it creates exceptions to game rules, then even "protected" cards should be shuffled, right?