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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Korunks on August 20, 2010, 08:32:54 AM

Title: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Korunks on August 20, 2010, 08:32:54 AM
Players 1's turn begin's (so all his artifacts are deactivated by game rule is this correct?)

Player 1 then DoN's Player 2's annoying artifact, then pops back up lampstand (it was active in the previous turn.)


I could have sworn this play was not allowed but after reviewing the rules and searching the post's I cannot find anything that says that this is ot a legal play.  Can I get some clarity here.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Smokey on August 20, 2010, 08:44:58 AM
It isn't allowed, Lampstand's effect doesn't fizzle until the next phase so it wouldn't let you play DoN in between deactivation and reactivation.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Korunks on August 20, 2010, 10:17:43 AM
Quote
It isn't allowed, Lampstand's effect doesn't fizzle until the next phase so it wouldn't let you play DoN in between deactivation and reactivation.

Huh?  Lampstand is active until it is deactivated by game ruleat the end of the upkeep phase, then the preparation phase begins it is not active.  Why can I not choose to DoN something and the activate my LotS?
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Gabe on August 20, 2010, 10:53:27 AM
Lampstand is active until it is deactivated by game ruleat the end of the upkeep phase, then the preparation phase begins it is not active.

Where do you find that rule?  I'm unaware of it.

Artifacts remain active until the point during your preparation phase that you choose do to one of the following:

1) Reactivate the same Artifact (leave it active)

2) Activate a different Artifact (turn the previous one face down and turn a new one face up)

3) Have no Artifact active (turn the previous one face down)

There is no window to deactivate an Artifact, play any other cards, then activate another Artifact.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: TechnoEthicist on August 20, 2010, 10:59:18 AM
Hmm...then I should have called a judge over a couple of times during nats, because I saw that happen consistently...
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SirNobody on August 20, 2010, 01:44:06 PM
Hey,

I have been wondering, if I have Lampstand in my Temple can I activate a different artifact in the temple (say Holy of Holies) which sends Lampstand back to my artifact pile, play Burial, and then activate Lampstand on my artifact Pile?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Alex_Olijar on August 20, 2010, 01:45:50 PM
I would say no. As Gabe said, the artifact activation phase can be performed anytime during your preperation phase, but once begun, in must be completed, and can not later be revisted (even if the activation of the artifact would have been legal during your artifact activation phase).
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Prof Underwood on August 20, 2010, 02:24:11 PM
I also agree with Gabe.  I think people should either choose to leave LotS up for another turn (in which case neither player can use DoN), or they should choose to turn it off for a turn (in which case both players can use DoN).
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: christiangamer25 on August 20, 2010, 03:47:39 PM
i think it gets turned off for a turn else one would be able to deactivate it play mayhem then reactivate which is broken.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: The M on August 20, 2010, 04:01:44 PM
have two in your deck and let one get DoN'd. :)
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: RTSmaniac on August 20, 2010, 04:12:55 PM
Hey,

I have been wondering, if I have Lampstand in my Temple can I activate a different artifact in the temple (say Holy of Holies) which sends Lampstand back to my artifact pile, play Burial, and then activate Lampstand on my artifact Pile?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

I agree with sir nobody on this one.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Korunks on August 20, 2010, 09:47:32 PM
I disagree, it should be all artifact activation at once or none, we don't need more ways to abuse LotS.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Smokey on August 20, 2010, 09:52:07 PM
Hey,

I have been wondering, if I have Lampstand in my Temple can I activate a different artifact in the temple (say Holy of Holies) which sends Lampstand back to my artifact pile, play Burial, and then activate Lampstand on my artifact Pile?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

I agree with sir nobody on this one.

You can't agree with someone asking a question.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: RTSmaniac on August 20, 2010, 11:00:09 PM
well i did.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: The Warrior on August 20, 2010, 11:00:44 PM
Hey,

I have been wondering, if I have Lampstand in my Temple can I activate a different artifact in the temple (say Holy of Holies) which sends Lampstand back to my artifact pile, play Burial, and then activate Lampstand on my artifact Pile?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Prof's quotes Worthy  :D

I agree with sir nobody on this one.

You can't agree with someone asking a question.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on August 21, 2010, 02:34:03 AM
You can't agree with someone asking a question.
However, it appears you can agree with nobody
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on August 21, 2010, 01:59:52 PM
i thought it was ruled a while ago you could turn down lampstand, DoN something, then turn it back up again on the same turn...
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: The M on August 21, 2010, 02:02:21 PM
i thought it was ruled a while ago you could turn down lampstand, DoN something, then turn it back up again on the same turn...
how would you do that?
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 21, 2010, 02:06:17 PM
I should probably just start a new thread, but since it's a DoN and Lampy question, I figured I'd ask here.

can I play DoN and target Lampy, it protects itself from discard, but I still negate it's ability for the phase?
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: sk on August 21, 2010, 02:10:55 PM
Destruction of Nehushtan
Type: Grim Reaper • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard one active Artifact in play. Artifact's ability is negated. • Play As: Discard one active Artifact in play. Negate the discarded artifact's ability. • Identifiers: False Religious Practice • Verse: II Kings 18:4 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Ultra Rare)

The artifact must be discarded to be negated.  Because Lampstand is protected from discard, it can't be negated by DoN.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on August 21, 2010, 02:11:03 PM
I should probably just start a new thread, but since it's a DoN and Lampy question, I figured I'd ask here.

can I play DoN and target Lampy, it protects itself from discard, but I still negate it's ability for the phase?
No, protect stops it from targeting it.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 21, 2010, 02:17:27 PM
Destruction of Nehushtan
Type: Grim Reaper • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard one active Artifact in play. Artifact's ability is negated. • Play As: Discard one active Artifact in play. Negate the discarded artifact's ability. • Identifiers: False Religious Practice • Verse: II Kings 18:4 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Ultra Rare)

The artifact must be discarded to be negated.  Because Lampstand is protected from discard, it can't be negated by DoN.
okay. I didn't look up the play as...
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on August 21, 2010, 04:46:49 PM
i thought it was ruled a while ago you could turn down lampstand, DoN something, then turn it back up again on the same turn...
how would you do that?
I think it's possible (according to the cheat sheet) to deactivate an artifact, and the reactivate it.  Regardless, you are only allowed on activation a turn.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: RTSmaniac on August 22, 2010, 01:16:45 AM
deja vu, anyone?
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Ironica on August 22, 2010, 01:50:27 PM
Its just the semi-annual discussion about lampstand and DON. It'll probably come up again around march/april again :p
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on August 22, 2010, 02:38:57 PM
Its just the semi-annual discussion about Insert widely questioned Redemption topic here. It'll probably come up again around march/april again :p
FTFY
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: The M on August 22, 2010, 03:19:41 PM
Its just the semi-annual discussion about Insert widely questioned Redemption topic here. It'll probably come up again around march/april again :p
FTFY
the way things are going they will probably have another new set by april and then there will be a plethera of contindrum to be solved.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on August 22, 2010, 04:35:50 PM
...They only release one set a year...

...At Nats...

...in August.

How long have you been playing?
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: sk on August 22, 2010, 07:24:47 PM
I think he's hoping for starter decks, which are usually released near Easter.  (At least, EF and GH were.)
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Nameless on August 22, 2010, 07:26:51 PM
this is only his first week playing
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: fyero on August 22, 2010, 07:40:31 PM
and he is alredy a full member lol its like how Ron Sias is still considered a new member on the boards but has bin here since 10 years ago...
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Nameless on August 22, 2010, 07:44:12 PM
I know that he actually has been playing for three or four years ( I think :-[)
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: fyero on August 22, 2010, 07:52:15 PM
this is only his first week playing

I know that he actually has been playing for three or four years ( I think :-[)

ur contradicting urself lol
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Nameless on August 22, 2010, 08:01:50 PM
I know ;)
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on August 22, 2010, 08:05:53 PM
And how my deck is still terrible, but somehow I'm a Hero Member.  Most likely it's because I like to blab on and on.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Korunks on August 24, 2010, 03:44:57 PM
So IS Gabe + Prof a consensus?  No window for Dominant play between artifact activation?
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on August 24, 2010, 03:51:11 PM
If I remember correctly, Elder status involves the ability to make an official ruling.  So, I guess so?
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 24, 2010, 03:56:12 PM
if two elders agree, it's basically official.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Master_Chi on August 25, 2010, 09:24:46 AM
if two elders agree, it's basically official.

Old fogies unite.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: TheJaylor on August 25, 2010, 10:15:45 AM
if two elders agree, it's basically official.
it's official unless there are more Elders rooting for the opposite side and if they're tied then they have to disprove the other theory. I agree with both Elders rulings on this that there is never an open window to destroy an artifact then activate Lampy.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on August 25, 2010, 10:55:19 AM
However, the cheat sheet says I can (as many times as I want):
b) Place an artifact face down in your artifact pile
c) Activate an artifact by placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile (limit once per turn)
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Master_Chi on August 25, 2010, 11:05:41 AM
However, the cheat sheet says I can (as many times as I want):
b) Place an artifact face down in your artifact pile
c) Activate an artifact by placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile (limit once per turn)

Except for that limit on the artifact activation, you do them as much as you want.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Korunks on August 25, 2010, 12:17:19 PM
Quote
However, the cheat sheet says I can (as many times as I want):
b) Place an artifact face down in your artifact pile
c) Activate an artifact by placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile (limit once per turn)

maybe the cheat sheet is outdated.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Master_Chi on August 26, 2010, 07:28:03 PM
However, the cheat sheet says I can (as many times as I want):
b) Place an artifact face down in your artifact pile
c) Activate an artifact by placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile (limit once per turn)
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on August 26, 2010, 10:17:15 PM
Yes, but I can place an artifact face-down as many times as I want (thus rendering it out of play)
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: RTSmaniac on August 26, 2010, 11:59:13 PM
but when you place that artifact face down, then you play a dominant- you have thus declared that you have moved on from your artifact activation part of the phase. You can still continue to place more artifacts face-down if you wish though :)

do i agree? no
does it matter? no

does this mean that i cant deactivate an artifact, play a territory class enhancement, and activate 6 artifacts after that? (during my prep phase of course)
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Cousin It on August 27, 2010, 12:31:22 AM
Hey,

I have been wondering, if I have Lampstand in my Temple can I activate a different artifact in the temple (say Holy of Holies) which sends Lampstand back to my artifact pile, play Burial, and then activate Lampstand on my artifact Pile?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

I don't see why this situation wouldn't be allowed.  Dominants can be played at any time.  There's nothing that says you can't activate one artifact in a temple, play a dom, then finish out the phase by activating another in your artifact pile.  The point that Lampstand is being deactivated because of the first activation shouldn't make a difference of weather or not you can do that....
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: RTSmaniac on August 27, 2010, 12:48:26 AM
placing an art down and deactivating an art is two different things. Once you deactivate an art, at that moment you have to reactivate an art or not. from sir nobody's example the art is sent to the artpile facedown if another temple/tab art is activated. same as art pile i would say- lampstand up-deactivate to activate diff art in art pile -play evil dom reactivate lampy in temple/tab should work.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Cousin It on August 27, 2010, 01:10:13 AM
No, it is not the same.  You may only activate one artifact per place per turn.  You can't activate something in your art pile, play a dom, then activate something in your artifact pile.  And you do choose to deactivate it when you send it to your artifact pile, but because you have another place that you haven't activated an artifact you can 're'activate it in your artifact pile.  There's nothing that says you have to activate all artifacts in all piles at the exact same time.  There's also nothing that says you can't deactivate and then reactivate the same artifact in the same turn, it's only that you can't deact then react in the same place.  I don't see why, if art is in your temple, you couldn't just put it down (choosing to activate nothing in your temple), play your evil dom, then activate Lamp in your art pile (choosing to activate an artifact).
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: mjwolfe on August 27, 2010, 02:04:27 AM
Hey,

I have been wondering, if I have Lampstand in my Temple can I activate a different artifact in the temple (say Holy of Holies) which sends Lampstand back to my artifact pile, play Burial, and then activate Lampstand on my artifact Pile?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
I would say that in Tim's example you could activate Lampstand as long as it is in another location. The rulebook states:

Preparation Phase – You may perform any number of these actions in any order. Actions may be repeated unless a
limit is stipulated....

b) Place an artifact face down in your artifact pile.
c) Activate an artifact by placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile (limit once per turn).

So, the only action that has a limit on it is placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile. Since multiple artifacts can be activated in different places during the preparation phase (one in each place), an evil dominant can be played in between the multiple activations.

Mike
 
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: RTSmaniac on August 27, 2010, 11:51:47 AM
sounds good to me
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on August 27, 2010, 05:26:56 PM
I still think it's possible without activation in multiple areas.
Lampy up, start of turn
b) Place an artifact face down in your artifact pile.
Face down cards are out of play, and the ability doesn't stay on, otherwise, I could abuse it by having two artifacts active at once
Play DoN (a dominant could be played at any time)
c) Activate an artifact by placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile (limit once per turn).  Using my one artifact activation to activate Lampstand.

This would give a window for others to play evil doms, however.  Better be quick!
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Cousin It on August 28, 2010, 06:03:00 PM
I still think it's possible without activation in multiple areas.
Lampy up, start of turn
b) Place an artifact face down in your artifact pile.
Face down cards are out of play, and the ability doesn't stay on, otherwise, I could abuse it by having two artifacts active at once
Play DoN (a dominant could be played at any time)
c) Activate an artifact by placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile (limit once per turn).  Using my one artifact activation to activate Lampstand.

This would give a window for others to play evil doms, however.  Better be quick!

If you read back in this thread, you'll see that this was already determined as not possible....
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on August 31, 2010, 12:39:51 PM
Where, exactly?

/Wasn't aware it was there
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Smokey on August 31, 2010, 01:58:48 PM
Where, exactly?

/Wasn't aware it was there

First page, third post. Also the place where this thread should have ended.
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: Korunks on September 01, 2010, 03:48:26 PM
Quote
So, the only action that has a limit on it is placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile. Since multiple artifacts can be activated in different places during the preparation phase (one in each place), an evil dominant can be played in between the multiple activations.

 If this is indeed how it is, it needs to be changed.  As a Host I don't want/need more slap jack situations arising from someone activating something on a temple, playing a Dominant and then flipping up LotS.  Not only does it give more power to Z temple who does not need it, but it also causes frustration when the other player also tries to insert doms into that time period when LotS is not up.  How can this be a good thing?
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SirNobody on September 01, 2010, 08:51:41 PM
Hey,

However, the cheat sheet says I can (as many times as I want):
b) Place an artifact face down in your artifact pile
c) Activate an artifact by placing an artifact face up on your artifact pile (limit once per turn)

When the cheat sheet talks about placing an artifact face down in your artifact pile it means from you hand.  It's talking about putting new artifacts into your artifact pile not deactivating active artifacts.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: DoN and Lampstand again
Post by: SomeKittens on September 04, 2010, 10:47:41 PM
Alright.  Thanks for clarifying.
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