Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Chronic Apathy on July 03, 2011, 04:18:08 PM
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Destructive Sin (TP)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Orange • Ability: None • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Place on a Hero. While this card remains, negate special abilities on that Hero and its owner's good Fortresses and Covenants.
Philip (Di)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Purple • Ability: 9 / 7 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may search deck for Bartholomew. May band to Bartholomew. Immune to Greek Evil Characters. Cannot be negated.
My opponent places Destructive Sin on Philip, can he band to Bart?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Why is John M (an elder) saying otherwise then?
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Why is John M (an elder) saying otherwise then?
Whats the reasoning why they can't band? Phills ability is CBN you can't negate a CBN ability.
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Why is John M (an elder) saying otherwise then?
You'd have to ask John M to explain his ruling. Phil's ability cannot be negated by Destructive Sin or anything else.
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The reason for John ruling this is if Philip has not entered battle, his ability can be negated since it hasn't taken place yet. So basically, Philip is entering battle for the first time with no special ability. I am not defending the ruling, I am just clarifyng what he said.
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He's not entering with no special ability. He's entering with an ability that is being negated, but, because his ability can not be negated, it still works.
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What if HoH is activated as well?
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Which is why I was asking for clarification in the other thread about DS on Michael. I know Judas Iscariot can be discarded before the he enters battle the first time, but I'd imagine if you put DS on him, it wouldn't work (Once he enters battle the first time) because his ability is still CBN. It doesn't erase the ability so the ability would still activate when he enters battle; it's the same deal as Captain of the Host entering battle first and you playing CBN SA's: they still work because CBN is CBN no matter what.
Carry On,
-C_S
**EDIT: Intraposted with Alex**
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What if HoH is activated as well?
I'm not really sure how that would be relevant at all (other than negating DS if HoH was active when DS was played).
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Ds can't even negate hoh. I think he meant that hoh negates philips cbn text.
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Ds can't even negate hoh. I think he meant that hoh negates philips cbn text.
I meant HoH can negate DS if it is active when DS is played.
EDIT: NVM >_>
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My understanding is that you can't negate a CBN ability whether its active or not, however if the ability isn't active is just isn't doing anything.
Philip's ability isn't active when he's in territory, but its still CBN, therefore DS can't negate him. Similar to how Jacob's banding ability isn't active in territory but he still can't enter battle if Household Idols is up.
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Hopefully these examples from the REG (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/default.htm?turl=specialconditions28.htm) will help bring some clarity.
• Cards that “cannot be negated” can never be interrupted, prevented, or negated. For example, Michael (Wa) cannot be interrupted by Holy of Holies (Pi) or King of Tyrus (Wa). Moreover, Ananias (Ap) is allowed to band to Sapphira (Wo) even when blocking a rescue attempt by The Strong Angel (Wa).
• “Cannot be negated” abilities cannot be negated even by other “cannot be negated” abilities. For example, consider Michael (Wa) attacking and Simon the Magician (Ap) blocking. Both characters cannot be negated. If Simon the Magician (Ap) plays Net (BL), then Net (BL) takes full effect. Michael (Wa) cannot play Flaming Sword (Wa) to negate Net (BL) because enhancements used by Simon the Magician (Ap) cannot be negated. Michael (Wa) is taken prisoner.
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Why is John M (an elder) saying otherwise then?
Perhaps because you were playing against him and he didn't want you to band... ;D
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What if HoH is activated as well?
Holy of Holies wouldn't effect anything in this scenario. It doesn't target Phil's ability.
Holy of Holies (Pi)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Prevent all interrupt, prevent, and negate abilities on Characters. Cannot be negated during the battle phase
All copies of Holy of Holies have been errata'd to have the above ability.
Also...• Cards that “cannot be negated” can never be interrupted, prevented, or negated. For example, Michael (Wa) cannot be interrupted by Holy of Holies (Pi)...
I'm confused as to why the REG mentions HoH here at all? HoH doesn't even target Michael's ability... at all. I'd say this is outdated, except it references the Priests printing of HoH which never had the old wording... An oversight while writing it?
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I'd like to point this out:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/w0rf47/commandments/churchsign3.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/w0rf47/commandments/churchsign3.jpg)