Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Korunks on December 18, 2009, 08:11:22 AM
-
Ok after rereading an older thread on Abom I have a few questions.
1. Can Cov. of Noah negate it for one turn? I have heard no however this quote from the REG confuses that for me:
The special ability “place” can be negated during the same game phase in which it is activated; it cannot be negated after that game phase is completed. However, the special ability on the placed card can be negated unless specified otherwise.
Does this mean that only the SA can be negated, but not the place?
2. Can Aaron's Rod Discard Abom? If so when does the ability cease to work, the next turn after its discard?
3. What about ScapeGoat wouldn't that also stop Abom?
Abomination of Desolation
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Black • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: If used by a Greek, place in opponent's territory. Each time opponent draws cards (except during draw phase), you may discard a card in that territory except a Lost Soul. • Attributes: False Religious Practice, Limit of one in territory • Identifiers: OT, False Religious Practice, Limit of one in territory • Verse: Daniel 11:31 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 14)
Aaron's Rod
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Green • Ability: None • Class: none • Special Ability: Discard all evil enhancements in play. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Exodus 7:12 • Availability: G Deck
Scapegoat
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Teal • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: If used by a High Priest, remove this card from the game to negate and discard all evil Enhancements and Curses in play. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT, Offering • Verse: Leviticus 16:10 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Rare)
-
1. Cov-o-Noah does stop Abom if used in the same phase.
2. Aaron's Rod does get rid of Abom, but the ability would continue until the next phase (d/c phase).
3. Scapegoat, same as Aaron's Rod for Abom purposes.
-
1. Cov-o-Noah does stop Abom if used in the same phase.
But if used in a later phase it does nothing? That contradicts the REG Quote that says the ability may be negated, not the place. Is this yet another of the "important" game rule change's that has gone undocumented that we host's have to guess at? Or is this one actually recorded some where?
-
1. Cov of Noah stops Abom completely if used in the same phase. If used after the same phase, it negates it for the phase (might be turn here, I'm not 100% sure), then it reactivates. So you could use Cov of Noah to temp negate Abom, draw a ton, then cry.
2. Aaron's Rod would discard Abom, but Abom's ability would continue until the end of the phase.
3. BubbleBoy is incorrect, Scapegoat would negate Abom and discard it. The ability would halt instantly and any cards discarded that phase would return.
-
...If used after the same phase, it negates it for the phase (might be turn here, I'm not 100% sure)...
...Scapegoat would negate Abom and discard it. The ability would halt instantly and any cards discarded that phase would return.
I was under the impression that abilities on "place" cards could not be negated after the phase they were played in. Am I wrong? Where is this stated?
-
Read the REG quote again:
The special ability “place” can be negated during the same game phase in which it is activated; it cannot be negated after that game phase is completed. However, the special ability on the placed card can be negated unless specified otherwise.
The "place" ability (the actual ability that places) is CBN after the first phase (underlined quote). The SA on the placed card (everything about discarding and drawing) is non-CBN and is just another ability (bold quote).
This is the way it is so a negate card will not unplace the card, instead, it will only stop the normal ability.
-
I think you explained it well. Even though you negate the enhancement, you are unable to negate the placing of the enhancement. So next turn it would still work.
-
Well, I guess I read that wrong. :doh: :P
-
I think you explained it well. Even though you negate the enhancement, you are unable to negate the placing of the enhancement. So next turn it would still work.
It is either next phase or next turn. I really to tell the truth can't remember.
-
I thought it was turn....where is the human reg when you need him :P
-
On that, I'm pretty sure it's by phase. That's when all abilities "refresh."
-
huh i luckily don't get place cards played against me that much. Only by my only other person in my playgroup. He is the only I have seen play that against me.
Stupid set fire against my site lockout deck. I should have thrown King Hezzy in...
-
Ok thanks guys, I was pretty sure you could one turn stop Abom, there seemed to be a lot of confusion about that card. I have seen multiple times that placed cards abilities cannot be negated and I though that was odd. All we need is some one "official" coming by and agreeing and we have it all wrapped here.
-
On that, I'm pretty sure it's by phase. That's when all abilities "refresh."
A phase is how long an ability lasts when discarded but not negated. In the Aaron's Rod example, Abom would last for the phase. However, this situation is different.
I can't find anything in the REG about how long negate lasts, but here is something:
Negating an artifact during battle does not go back and replay the whole turn as if the artifact was not there; it only negates the special ability of the artifact from the current phase forward.
This seems to suggest that negate lasts the turn, not just phase. However, I'm still not convinced either way.
Ok thanks guys, I was pretty sure you could one turn stop Abom, there seemed to be a lot of confusion about that card. I have seen multiple times that placed cards abilities cannot be negated and I though that was odd. All we need is some one "official" coming by and agreeing and we have it all wrapped here.
I don't see how you need an "official" as the REG already exists. However, input is needed about how long a negate lasts.
-
You can only negate the placing of placed cards in the phase they are placed.
You can negate the other ability on the placed card for the current phase only.
If you discard the placed card without negating it, then its lasts until the end of the phase, and then ends when that phase ends.
If you negate and discard a placed card (such as with Plague of Hail, iirc), then the ability is undone for that phase and forward.
The REG quote about negating an artifact "from that phase forward" is talking about a negate+discard.
Negates and/or dsicards of artifacts work exactly the same as negates and/or discards of placed cards.
-
I am necroposting this topic to see whether or not it needs to be confirmed under the new ruling council. Any other elders want to comment?
-
You can only negate the placing of placed cards in the phase they are placed.
You can negate the other ability on the placed card for the current phase only.
If you discard the placed card without negating it, then its lasts until the end of the phase, and then ends when that phase ends.
If you negate and discard a placed card (such as with Plague of Hail, iirc), then the ability is undone for that phase and forward.
The REG quote about negating an artifact "from that phase forward" is talking about a negate+discard.
Negates and/or discards of artifacts work exactly the same as negates and/or discards of placed cards.
+1