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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Nameless on December 07, 2014, 08:06:21 PM
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Does Abomination of Desolation depict an Idol?
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There is a big statue which seems to be an idol, but I cannot find in listed any where that this card depicts one.
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If it's not currently classified as depicting an idol I think it should be, given that's exactly what the card is about, lol.
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It depicts an idol. I can tell you that with certainty.
Problem is that, while it fits the definition, the REG does not have it listed.
Depicting an Idol
A card is considered to be Depicting an Idol if it has an idol illustrated in the card art. In this case, an idol is a statue or physical representation of a false god.
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This includes the following cards:
Ashtaroth Worship (Boulden) (Pr), Ashtaroth Worship (Hodgson) (Pr), Ashtaroth Worship (I), Altar of Dagon (Pa), Asherah Pole (Ki), Captured Ark (P), Golden Calf (H), Household Idols (Ap), Jacob Buries the Foreign Gods (RA), Jeroboam's Idolatry (RA), and Unknown Nation (Pi)
That needs to get updated it looks like. This happens sometimes, but if it fits the definition clearly, it counts.
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Well that would've been nice to know at the tournament this weekend... :P
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Well that would've been nice to know at the tournament this weekend... :P
Did you really play it as if it did not? Even with all the great work that has been done on the REG in recent years, it's not infallible...
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Well that would've been nice to know at the tournament this weekend... :P
Did you really play it as if it did not? Even with all the great work that has been done on the REG in recent years, it's not infallible...
Yerp. Oh, well, I don't think it would've helped me against Jordan anyway.
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You know what else depicts an idol? Unknown Nation.
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I would say it does, definitely!
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Unknown Nation is already on the list of them too ;)
I should go through and update that list since it matters much more now...
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When was the last time it was updated?
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19th century, that was the last time that any updates happened on the REG.
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Wow, I'm amazed!
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19th century, that was the last time that any updates happened on the REG.
Did you mean the 20th century? The REG didn't exist in the 1800s, lol. And even then it's been updated since 1999....
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When?
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19th century, that was the last time that any updates happened on the REG.
Did you mean the 20th century? The REG didn't exist in the 1800s, lol. And even then it's been updated since 1999....
I feel as though he's being facetious, but who knows, maybe David's crazy. ;)
When?
I believe all of the headings in the REG have a "Last Updated" thing to go along with it.
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I think the last time I used the REG was when I was first learning how to play... a looong time ago...
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I thought Holy of Holies also made this list. If so, it's ironic how much cohesion there is with HoH and demon defenses.
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I thought Holy of Holies also made this list. If so, it's ironic how much cohesion there is with HoH and demon defenses.
No...Holy of Holies is most certainly not an idol. Nothing that represents The One True God is an idol. The only reason Captured Ark 'depicts an idol' is because there are other idols it has been placed with in that image (there are pieces of them there on the art, at least).
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Does Magic Charms depict an idol. There is a pentagram in the artwork.
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Does Magic Charms depict an idol. There is a pentagram in the artwork.
I can't seem to find a ruling one way or the other already in place, but I would lean to 'no it does not'.
The current definition requires a depiction of "a statue or physical representation of a false god," and while the pentagram (and other items) in the picture represent witchcraft, they are not necessarily representative of a false god.
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+1
An idol suggests something that is worshiped, and I don't believe charms would fit that criteria.
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Could Magic Charms be classified as a False Religious Practice?
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I don't believe so. My understanding is that for it to be considered a "practice" it has to be the actual act. This would include cards like Baal Worship, Molech Worship, Ashtaroth Worship, Sun Worship, Worship of Milcom, Pagan Sacrifices, etc.
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A-bomb has that identifier though.
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Definition of False Religious Practices:
False Religious Practice
Piety of Mary (Wo) ignores “all special abilities on cards depicting a false religious practice.” A card is considered to ‘Depicting a False Religious Practice’ if it depicts the practicing of a false religion or a false practice of a true religion. The depiction can be in the card art or scripture reference.
Note that it can be in either the art or the scripture. Also, there are actually good cards currently listed in the ranks (Jacob Buries the Foreign Gods and Unbowed), simply because there are false practices shown.
I would say that Charms fits the description, not only because there are 'false practices' on the card in the form of charms intended for magic not from God, but also the verse:
Ezekiel 13:20 - Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against your magic charms by which you hunt souls there like birds. I will tear them from your arms, and let the souls go, the souls you hunt like birds.
Seems pretty clear that these represent false practices, and I think it fits the definition we currently have. It would still not be an idol, but I would argue the case that it should be under False Religious Practices.
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So household idols depicts a false religion practice?
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So household idols depicts a false religion practice?
It's actually already on the list:
The
following are cards depicting a false religious practice:
(Good): Jacob Buries the Foreign Gods (RA), and Unbowed (FF)
(Evil): Abomination of Desolation (RA), Artifacts Destroyed (Ki), Ashtaroth Worship
(Boulden) (Pr), Ashtaroth Worship (Hodgson) (Pr), Ashtaroth Worship (I), Baal Worship
(Pr), Balaam's Disobedience (Pa), Chariots of the Sun (Ki), Chariots of the Sun (L), Chariots
of the Sun (UL), Chemosh (Ki), Covenant with Death (Pr), Deceit of Sapphira (G), Deceit of
Sapphira (Wo), Den of Robbers (Pr), Destruction of Nehushtan (Pa), Disturbing Samuel’s
Spirit (Di), Divination (Ap), Divination (TP), Evil Fire (CL), Evil Fire (CU), Evil Fire (Pi), False
Dreams (Pr), False Peace (Pr), False Prophesy (Pr), False Wisdom (Pr), Idolatry (Ap), Image
of Jealousy (Pr), Image of Jealousy (TP), Jeroboam's Idolatry (RA), Korah's Rebellion (Pa),
Manasseh's Altar (Pr), Men as Gods (Ap), Merodach Worship (Pi), Molech Worship (CL),
Molech Worship (CU), Molech Worship (Pr), Molten Calf Worship (Pr), Number of the Beast
(Wa), Pagan Sacrifices (Pi), Paintings of Abominations (Pr), Partners with Demons (Ap),
Saul’s Disobedient Sacrifice (Pi), Stiff-Necked (FF), Stolen Idols (Pa), Strange Fire (Pi), Sun
Worship (DL), Sun Worship (DU), Sun Worship (Pr), Table of Demons (Ap), Temple of
Nisroch (Ki), The gods of Egypt (Pa), Vain Vision (Pr), Weeping for Tammuz (Pr), Worship of
Milcom (Ki), and Worshipping Demons (FF)
(Neutral): Altar of Ahaz (Pi), Altar of Dagon (Pa), Asherah Pole (Ki), Golden Calf (H), and
Household Idols (Ap)
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Should Destruction of Nehushtan be on the list of "Depicting an Idol"?
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Was it actually an idol? It was not what it was intended to be, but what it was in the end.
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Should Destruction of Nehushtan be on the list of "Depicting an Idol"?
It seems that the Israelites were burning incense to the snake, but I'm not sure I would call that an idol by Redemption definitions. It currently is labeled correctly as False Religious Practice because we know they should not have been making those offerings to it, as that took attention away from God and onto the object. However, this was the bronze snake of Moses, and there does not seem to be an indication that it was being treated as a god, or representation of one. Instead, it seems to be part of some false worship practices that went against Jewish law and offended God.
I would say that it does not depict an idol therefore, since there is no indication Nehushtan was being treated as, or represented, a god to those worshiping at it.