Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Master Q on May 11, 2017, 08:18:14 PM
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Does Darkness LS trigger off of forced draws (such as opponent's Mayhem, etc)?
Darkness LS - "If put in play by an opponent's special ability (or if you have no Evil Characters in territory when drawn), you may search deck or Reserve for an Evil Character and put it in hand or play."
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Only if you have no Evil Characters. Drawn LS are put in play by game rule, not a special ability.
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Hmmm... We tested it the other way. Hold on while I confer with the others
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if they played mayhem and you draw darkness i'd say you get to search
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Hmmm... We tested it the other way. Hold on while I confer with the others
Sorry, ignore this. Aggie is correct. I was thinking of an earlier version which was similar and would have triggered off Mayhem
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It seems more intuitive for it to trigger off an opponent's draw ability but I do agree it is more consistent with the current rules for it not to.
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The reason it doesn't is because the LS was put in play by a game rule (being drawn), not by an opponent's ability.
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wowo now that is a real stretch lol.. "drawn by game rule" even though your opponent's ability made your draw?? really??
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wowo now that is a real stretch lol.. "drawn by game ability" even though your opponent made your draw?? really??
Not drawn by a game rule, put in play by a game rule.
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yeah dude mayhem delenda est that is unreal lol
i have been on like a wrong of the rules spree lately.. clearly playing thousands of games on lackey still isn't enough to ever understand the rules of this game
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How does this apply to deck discards? Triggers if "place the LS in play instead" is written on the card, but not if it's just a flat discard? Assuming it's an opponent's ability, of course.
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yeah dude mayhem delenda est that is unreal lol
i have been on like a wrong of the rules spree lately.. clearly playing thousands of games on lackey still isn't enough to ever understand the rules of this game
Maybe you should take a break. ::)
Aggie, from my understanding cards like Lawless, Awake, Revealer, Ends of the Earth, etc would trigger Darkness as they are intentionally targeting lost souls to be put into play. But souls that come into play that would be drawn or by deck discard do not trigger Darkness as game rule says that LSs are put into play instead in those two scenarios. Darkness's ability comes down to it being intentionally targeted by another card to be put into play.
As a side note, I know getting rid of superfluous wording and leaving space on cards for more abilities is a good thing, but it's scenarios like these that adding a couple of extra words (if there's room on the card) to clarify the ability would be better so as to avoid some of these forum questions. I'm thinking that if Darkness was worded like this:
"If put into play by an opponent's special ability that targets lost souls..."
That kind of wording would add much more clarify to what Darkness's ability was designed to activate on.
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That change would clear up the draw question, but doesn't really answer mine.
Fishers of Men/Gideon's Call (I/J):
Reveal the top 3 cards of opponent’s deck (or top 9 if used by a X); put the revealed Lost Souls in (that) opponent’s territory and underdeck the rest.
Samaritan Water Jar:
Discard this card to reveal the top 3 cards of an opponent's deck (or 9 if a Samaritan Hero is in play) and set them aside. Put Lost Souls in play instead. When that deck has no cards, return those cards from set-aside to deck.
Egyptian Spear:
Discard the top card of opponent's deck. If it is a Lost Soul, put it in play instead.
Fishers/Call work, like Ends of the Earth. Water Jar should work, because there's not a game rule putting them in play. But unless we've ruled "put Lost souls in play" and it's variations on deck discard cards to be clarifying text, how do you explain the difference between Water Jar and Egyptian Spear when both say put the LS in play?
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The same way "place in Land of Bondage" is clarifying text on older capture abilities I expect that "put Lost Souls in play" is the same for deck discard abilities. I haven't conferred with other elders yet though so please don't consider that official.
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I know it's only been a couple of days since the last post but checking to see if there's been any update on this issue.
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The same way "place in Land of Bondage" is clarifying text on older capture abilities I expect that "put Lost Souls in play" is the same for deck discard abilities. I haven't conferred with other elders yet though so please don't consider that official.
+1 with this.
A Lost Soul put in play due to being discarded from deck is being put in play by game rule, not by an opponent's ability.
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I thought that was going to be the answer, I just don't recall that being stated until now. Not that it particularly mattered prior to the RoJ release.
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Thanks
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The same way "place in Land of Bondage" is clarifying text on older capture abilities I expect that "put Lost Souls in play" is the same for deck discard abilities. I haven't conferred with other elders yet though so please don't consider that official.
+1 with this.
A Lost Soul put in play due to being discarded from deck is being put in play by game rule, not by an opponent's ability.
How does that interact with Warrior's Spear (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Warrior%E2%80%99s_Spear_(RA)) and Pagan Sacrifices (http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Pagan_Sacrifices_(Pi))? I think Warrior's Spear works as intended, but for Pagan Sacrifices, there's an argument that without the phrase on the card, if the top card is a LS, Pagan Sacrifices is discarded instead of the top card - leaving the LS on top of the deck.