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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Red on June 02, 2017, 01:20:54 PM
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1. The serpent's restrict. Is the serpent's restrict tied to him or to the paralysis? If it is tied to him, could it be negated in territory? If so, why?
2. High priest ananias. If he blocks, then he restricts someone from playing enhancements with a brigade not in battle. Does a multi-color site provide brigades for this purpose? Also, would that restrict DAEs or do they drop the evil brigade when played as good?
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1. It's tied to the paralysis. His paralysis ability can be negated during the battle phase but not afterward. The hero can be healed, however, in territory by some other means, or the hero can be underdecked or discarded to remove the restrict caused by the paralysis.
2. A multi-colored site is considered neutral brigade value, so it doesn't count towards a "brigade not in battle", only heroes and enhancements qualify. It would only restrict DAEs if there were two brigades on the DAE (such as one of the bowls of wrath) if those brigades aren't already in battle. Once a DAE gets played it's played either to good or evil alignment, so the opposite alignment wouldn't count towards a "brigade not already in battle" if it was played on a hero or villain.
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.
2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.
2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.
How can Serpent's ability be negated in a separate phase (by which cards)?
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.
2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.
You are right about The Serpent but I would say that neutral versions of a brigade are not the same as their good counter parts, e.g. neutral red is a completely different brigade than good red, therefore brigades on sites in battle would not count as being the same brigade as those on good enhancements for the purposes of HPA's ability.
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.
2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.
How can you (which cards) can negate Serpent's ability in a separate phase?
Serpent's restrict ability is ongoing not instant; you can negate it with any card that can target his ability just like any other card.
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.
2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.
How can you (which cards) can negate Serpent's ability in a separate phase?
Serpent's restrict ability is ongoing not instant; you can negate it with any card that can target his ability just like any other card.
Yes, you're right. It is an on-going restrict. But what specific cards can negate it after the battle phase?
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To clarify, the restrict is ongoing and can be negated ina later phase by any negate evil card. The paralysis is instant so that cannot be negated in a later phase.
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Wouldn't the logical outcome of such a ruling on serpent be that moses from cloud negates it after the phase? Also, if that's the case, two things, everyone has played it wrong, and that makes no sense whatsover.
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To clarify, the restrict is ongoing and can be negated ina later phase by any negate evil card. The paralysis is instant so that cannot be negated in a later phase.
If the restrict can be negated in a later phase what's the target of the negate an evil card, The Serpent in your opponent's territory? That doesn't make sense to me if that's the case. And if it's no longer in territory how can you target The Serpent to negate the restrict if it's no longer in play?
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If the restrict can be negated in a later phase what's the target of the negate an evil card, The Serpent in your opponent's territory? That doesn't make sense to me if that's the case. And if it's no longer in territory how can you target The Serpent to negate the restrict if it's not longer in play?
If The Serpent is out of play (discarded, banished, etc) then it is highly improbably it could be negated. (If The Serpent was set aside I guess it could be negated by something like Golden Censer). However, if The Serpent is sitting in opponent's territory it has an on-going ability that can be targeted by a negate.
Wouldn't the logical outcome of such a ruling on serpent be that moses from cloud negates it after the phase?
Cloud Moses would negate it if he entered battle or was put in territory after. If Moses was already active in territory then he is only a prevent at that point.
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If the restrict can be negated in a later phase what's the target of the negate an evil card, The Serpent in your opponent's territory? That doesn't make sense to me if that's the case. And if it's no longer in territory how can you target The Serpent to negate the restrict if it's not longer in play?
If The Serpent is out of play (discarded, banished, etc) then it cannot be negated. However, if The Serpent is sitting in opponent's territory it has an on-going ability that can be targeted by a negate.
To clarify, the ability doesn't magically become CBN because Serpent left play, it just is functionally so given that it would be extremely difficult or in most cases impossible to target him and by extension his ability if he were not in play, correct?
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Correct--thank you for clarifying that.
If there was a dominant that said "Negate the last Evil Character that blocked" then The Serpent could be negated even if discarded or banished.
I doubt we're going to make that card. 8)
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.
2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.
You are right about The Serpent but I would say that neutral versions of a brigade are not the same as their good counter parts, e.g. neutral red is a completely different brigade than good red, therefore brigades on sites in battle would not count as being the same brigade as those on good enhancements for the purposes of HPA's ability.
I would have to disagree as it's been clarified already that if a card has "X = # of Opponent's Brigades" that counts neutral brigades as the same as good brigades. They are not good cards, they are neutral cards. But neutral brigades function essentially as good brigades. Because Ananias does not specifically say "Good Brigades" then he's checking anything that has a Brigade to be the same as good cards your Opponent is trying to play.
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same reason you can use angelic guidance to search for a silver card, ie a site - ends of the earth, babylon, new jerusalem, etc
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same reason you can use angelic guidance to search for a silver card, ie a site - ends of the earth, babylon, new jerusalem, etc
Silver there refers to two different brigades, silver good and silver neutral. They are still completely separate brigades.
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same reason you can use angelic guidance to search for a silver card, ie a site - ends of the earth, babylon, new jerusalem, etc
Silver there refers to two different brigades, silver good and silver neutral. They are still completely separate brigades.
no, they are the same brigade
you are referring to alignment
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.
2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.
You are right about The Serpent but I would say that neutral versions of a brigade are not the same as their good counter parts, e.g. neutral red is a completely different brigade than good red, therefore brigades on sites in battle would not count as being the same brigade as those on good enhancements for the purposes of HPA's ability.
I would have to disagree as it's been clarified already that if a card has "X = # of Opponent's Brigades" that counts neutral brigades as the same as good brigades. They are not good cards, they are neutral cards. But neutral brigades function essentially as good brigades. Because Ananias does not specifically say "Good Brigades" then he's checking anything that has a Brigade to be the same as good cards your Opponent is trying to play.
DAEs are not neutral when played, they are either good or evil cards depending on what you play them as. Ananias is checking for same brigades, and sites shouldn't count since red on a site isn't the same brigade as red on a good enhancement.
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well neutral brigades do count for high priest, just as stated before they also count for Affliction of Job where x=brigades
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.
2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.
You are right about The Serpent but I would say that neutral versions of a brigade are not the same as their good counter parts, e.g. neutral red is a completely different brigade than good red, therefore brigades on sites in battle would not count as being the same brigade as those on good enhancements for the purposes of HPA's ability.
I would have to disagree as it's been clarified already that if a card has "X = # of Opponent's Brigades" that counts neutral brigades as the same as good brigades. They are not good cards, they are neutral cards. But neutral brigades function essentially as good brigades. Because Ananias does not specifically say "Good Brigades" then he's checking anything that has a Brigade to be the same as good cards your Opponent is trying to play.
DAEs are not neutral when played, they are either good or evil cards depending on what you play them as. Ananias is checking for same brigades, and sites shouldn't count since red on a site isn't the same brigade as red on a good enhancement.
As Kairus is saying, then with cards like Affliction of Job, it would count Netural brigades in addition to the good brigades which is rediculous. DAC/DAE's count as Good and Evil cards in hand/deck/Discard Pile.
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If the restrict can be negated in a later phase what's the target of the negate an evil card, The Serpent in your opponent's territory? That doesn't make sense to me if that's the case. And if it's no longer in territory how can you target The Serpent to negate the restrict if it's not longer in play?
If The Serpent is out of play (discarded, banished, etc) then it is highly improbably it could be negated. (If The Serpent was set aside I guess it could be negated by something like Golden Censer). However, if The Serpent is sitting in opponent's territory it has an on-going ability that can be targeted by a negate.
Wouldn't the logical outcome of such a ruling on serpent be that moses from cloud negates it after the phase?
Cloud Moses would negate it if he entered battle or was put in territory after. If Moses was already active in territory then he is only a prevent at that point.
What's confusing to me is if the serpent's on-going restrict was played in battle, and he wins the battle and goes back to territory after battle phase, by him sitting there he is still targetable for negation of the restrict ability? The ability activated in battle and carries on through the turns, so how can the restrict be negated if the serpent is just sitting there well after the battle phase is over? The restrict isn't contingent upon the Serpent being in play; it's contingent upon the paralyzed hero still being paralyzed...
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I agree Watchman, as The Serpent is not territory class I do have a hard time understanding how he can be targeted for negate. The only other character I can think of with a similar on going ability that can be negated in territory who is not territory class is Simon the Zealot
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I agree Watchman, as The Serpent is not territory class I do have a hard time understanding how he can be targeted for negate. The only other character I can think of with a similar on going ability that can be negated in territory who is not territory class is Simon the Zealot
Leper might be another example, not that you see that played much.
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Judas is an example of a semi-commonly played one, although he does have CBN so the interaction between it and negates doesn't come up.
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Judas is an example of a semi-commonly played one, although he does have CBN so the interaction between it and negates doesn't come up.
Simon the Zealot is one that doesn't have a CBN.
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I want to revisit this thread concerning the Serpent.
If the Serpent is still in play after the paralyzation occurs, a card like Moses, if placed in territory in a later phase/turn while the restrict is still active, or if in the next battle phase a card like Job’s Wife is played can negate the restrict but not the paralyzation? But if the Serpent is no longer in play (barring it is in set-aside and can be targeted by Golden Censer like how Guardian mentioned; and maybe I played Death of Unrighteous on it during the battle phase when Serpent’s ability activated) then the restrict cannot be negated?
There’s an upcoming tournament that I’m sure Serpent will be used at so I want to make sure I understand how the restrict can and cannot be negated.
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If an ability lasts over a phase, it becomes CBN. After the battle the serpent's ability activates is over, it becomes CBN if hasn't been negated during battle. All you can do to lift the restrict at that point is wait it out or get rid of the hero that's paralyzed
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If an ability lasts over a phase, it becomes CBN. After the battle the serpent's ability activates is over, it becomes CBN if hasn't been negated during battle. All you can do to lift the restrict at that point is wait it out or get rid of the hero that's paralyzed
This isn’t entirely accurate. You cannot negate abilities that completed in a previous phase. Similarly you cannot negated the activation of an ongoing ability of it activated in a previous phase. However you can negate an ongoing ability (restrict) even if it was activated during a previous phase. Playing 3W on The Serpent or simply pushing a FBTN character into battle will negate the ongoing restrict and allow you to play good Doms.
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If an ability lasts over a phase, it becomes CBN. After the battle the serpent's ability activates is over, it becomes CBN if hasn't been negated during battle. All you can do to lift the restrict at that point is wait it out or get rid of the hero that's paralyzed
This isn’t entirely accurate. You cannot negate abilities that completed in a previous phase. Similarly you cannot negated the activation of an ongoing ability of it activated in a previous phase. However you can negate an ongoing ability (restrict) even if it was activated during a previous phase. Playing 3W on The Serpent or simply pushing a FBTN character into battle will negate the ongoing restrict and allow you to play good Doms.
Thanks Gabe. And confirming that the negation can still occur whether or not the Serpent is still in play?
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If an ability lasts over a phase, it becomes CBN. After the battle the serpent's ability activates is over, it becomes CBN if hasn't been negated during battle. All you can do to lift the restrict at that point is wait it out or get rid of the hero that's paralyzed
This was what I basically thought too (see my original posts) but we’re obviously wrong.
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Thanks Gabe. And confirming that the negation can still occur whether or not the Serpent is still in play?
No, the negation can only happen if The Serpent is in play (or in set aside with a negate like Golden Censer).
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Thanks Gabe. And confirming that the negation can still occur whether or not the Serpent is still in play?
No, the negation can only happen if The Serpent is in play (or in set aside with a negate like Golden Censer).
So it’s best to get rid of the Serpent as soon as you use him. Got it. Thanks :thumbup:
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Luckily, He can use DoU, SSS, and BB, so it's pretty easy to get rid of him. ;D
I have him in my orange deck. A combo I pulled off one game was block with serpent > Persistent Pestering under decks their stuff and under decks itself > Evil armor grabs PP > PP again and under deck > SSS. Opponent was mad.
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Luckily, He can use DoU, SSS, and BB, so it's pretty easy to get rid of him. ;D
I have him in my orange deck. A combo I pulled off one game was block with serpent > Persistent Pestering under decks their stuff and under decks itself > Evil armor grabs PP > PP again and under deck > SSS. Opponent was mad.
Yeah I love using DoU and SSS on him.
Nice combo!
What is BB?
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Luckily, He can use DoU, SSS, and BB, so it's pretty easy to get rid of him. ;D
I have him in my orange deck. A combo I pulled off one game was block with serpent > Persistent Pestering under decks their stuff and under decks itself > Evil armor grabs PP > PP again and under deck > SSS. Opponent was mad.
Yeah I love using DoU and SSS on him.
Nice combo!
What is BB?
Belshazzar's Banquet.
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Luckily, He can use DoU, SSS, and BB, so it's pretty easy to get rid of him. ;D
I have him in my orange deck. A combo I pulled off one game was block with serpent > Persistent Pestering under decks their stuff and under decks itself > Evil armor grabs PP > PP again and under deck > SSS. Opponent was mad.
Yeah I love using DoU and SSS on him.
Nice combo!
What is BB?
Belshazzar's Banquet.
It’s always obvious once the question is answered lol.
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Luckily, He can use DoU, SSS, and BB, so it's pretty easy to get rid of him. ;D
I have him in my orange deck. A combo I pulled off one game was block with serpent > Persistent Pestering under decks their stuff and under decks itself > Evil armor grabs PP > PP again and under deck > SSS. Opponent was mad.
Yeah I love using DoU and SSS on him.
Nice combo!
What is BB?
Belshazzar's Banquet.
It’s always obvious once the question is answered lol.
TBF, BB isn't exactly a very commonly used acronym, so that was my bad, just making up acronyms on the fly because I didn't want to type out "Belshazzar's Banquet"
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TBF, BB isn't exactly a very commonly used acronym, so that was my bad, just making up acronyms on the fly because I didn't want to type out "Belshazzar's Banquet"
I can never remember how to spell Belshazzar. ;D
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TBF, BB isn't exactly a very commonly used acronym, so that was my bad, just making up acronyms on the fly because I didn't want to type out "Belshazzar's Banquet"
I can never remember how to spell Belshazzar. ;D
The one Babylonian name I can never remember how to spell is Nergashalazzer (I didn't spell check so that's my guess).
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That's why I just call him Nerg... 8)
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I want to revisit this thread concerning the Serpent.
If the Serpent is still in play after the paralyzation occurs, a card like Moses, if placed in territory in a later phase/turn while the restrict is still active, or if in the next battle phase a card like Job’s Wife is played can negate the restrict but not the paralyzation? But if the Serpent is no longer in play (barring it is in set-aside and can be targeted by Golden Censer like how Guardian mentioned; and maybe I played Death of Unrighteous on it during the battle phase when Serpent’s ability activated) then the restrict cannot be negated?
There’s an upcoming tournament that I’m sure Serpent will be used at so I want to make sure I understand how the restrict can and cannot be negated.
Deep!!
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1. The serpent's restrict. Is the serpent's restrict tied to him or to the paralysis? If it is tied to him, could it be negated in territory? If so, why?
2. High priest ananias. If he blocks, then he restricts someone from playing enhancements with a brigade not in battle. Does a multi-color site provide brigades for this purpose? Also, would that restrict DAEs or do they drop the evil brigade when played as good?
2. Restricts "enhancements with a brigade..." a Site is not an enhancement. So, i don't think it would block adding a Site, regardless of the brigade discussion about a site.
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He doesn't restrict adding Sites, but the question was whether putting a Site in battle allows the player to play enhancements with the brigades that the Site has (since Sites have neutral brigades).
For example, if HPA blocks a Clay Hero, that Clay Hero cannot play a Clay/White enhancement. However, if the player added a Site that included White (or was a rainbow Site), then the question was if the Clay/White enhancement could be played at that point.
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He doesn't restrict adding Sites, but the question was whether putting a Site in battle allows the player to play enhancements with the brigades that the Site has (since Sites have neutral brigades).
For example, if HPA blocks a Clay Hero, that Clay Hero cannot play a Clay/White enhancement. However, if the player added a Site that included White (or was a rainbow Site), then the question was if the Clay/White enhancement could be played at that point.
I c. so how do you say that Works, TG?
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I've had it ruled that adding a multicolor site to battle does allow playing enhancements around Ananias.
While High Priest Ananias is blocking, restrict opponent from playing good Enhancements with a brigade not already in battle.
Even though sites have neutral brigades, they are still the same as good brigades. Once the site has been added to battle, that brigade is in battle, allowing the enhancement to be played.
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I've had it ruled that adding a multicolor site to battle does allow playing enhancements around Ananias.
While High Priest Ananias is blocking, restrict opponent from playing good Enhancements with a brigade not already in battle.
Even though sites have neutral brigades, they are still the same as good brigades. Once the site has been added to battle, that brigade is in battle, allowing the enhancement to be played.
That's a great point Bobbert, but due to the ambiguity of this discussion, it would be really nice to have an Elder give official ruling.
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That's a great point Bobbert, but due to the ambiguity of this discussion, it would be really nice to have an Elder give official ruling.
Justin is an elder and gave the ruling as well an an explanation and an example. What more do you need?
He doesn't restrict adding Sites, but the question was whether putting a Site in battle allows the player to play enhancements with the brigades that the Site has (since Sites have neutral brigades).
For example, if HPA blocks a Clay Hero, that Clay Hero cannot play a Clay/White enhancement. However, if the player added a Site that included White (or was a rainbow Site), then the question was if the Clay/White enhancement could be played at that point.
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If you don't know the answer, Guardian's post comes across more as restating the original question than providing an answer.
That being said, Bobbert is correct.
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If you don't know the answer, Guardian's post comes across more as restating the original question than providing an answer.
That being said, Bobbert is correct.
To be honest, that was my intention...I was only clarifying what was being asked and then waiting for Aggie to come along and confirm the actual answer. ;D
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That's a great point Bobbert, but due to the ambiguity of this discussion, it would be really nice to have an Elder give official ruling.
Justin is an elder and gave the ruling as well an an explanation and an example. What more do you need?
He doesn't restrict adding Sites, but the question was whether putting a Site in battle allows the player to play enhancements with the brigades that the Site has (since Sites have neutral brigades).
For example, if HPA blocks a Clay Hero, that Clay Hero cannot play a Clay/White enhancement. However, if the player added a Site that included White (or was a rainbow Site), then the question was if the Clay/White enhancement could be played at that point.
I apologize Gabe, but it seemed that TG (Justin) was helping me understand the topic correctly (as I only partial understood the total ramifications), I didnt think that he had actually given a definitive ruling.
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If you don't know the answer, Guardian's post comes across more as restating the original question than providing an answer.
That being said, Bobbert is correct.
thanks for the Clarification Aggie
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My bad. I didn't see a question in Justin's response. It seemed to me like he provided the correct answer. Hopefully it's all clear now.
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My bad. I didn't see a question in Justin's response. It seemed to me like he provided the correct answer. Hopefully it's all clear now.
It's all Good! I mean, Ill still be your friend ;D