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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: browarod on January 06, 2010, 03:36:56 PM

Title: Converting Angels
Post by: browarod on January 06, 2010, 03:36:56 PM
I read somewhere that Angels lose the "Angel" identifier when they are converted.

This may seem like a stupid question, but I've never had anyone explain it to me before, so...um...what exactly do they become when converted to an evil character?
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Professoralstad on January 06, 2010, 03:48:15 PM
Without getting into any theological debates, a "fallen" angel is considered a demon in Redemption. This is true of the EC Fallen Angel, as well as any angel converted by Angelic Rebellion (the only way to currently convert an Angel).
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: browarod on January 06, 2010, 03:53:13 PM
I figured that's what it would be, I just wanted confirmation.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Minister Polarius on January 07, 2010, 12:57:31 AM
Fallen Angels and Demons are two different things. And neither one of them suddenly gets a second chance just because someone threw a net over them.
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Professoralstad on January 07, 2010, 08:50:36 AM
Fallen Angels and Demons are two different things.

Believe what you will, but Redemption has considered both Fallen Angel and an Angel converted by Angelic Rebellion to be demons for gameplay purposes. If you believe that needs to change, you can certainly argue for it, but I doubt you'll get very far.
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Minister Polarius on January 07, 2010, 09:49:54 AM
Haha, I know. That's why I included the bit about redeeming captured Demons.

Most people don't know that, Biblically, there is a distinction between Demons and Fallen Angels. Just spreading the knowledge :)
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Prof Underwood on January 07, 2010, 11:48:32 AM
Most people don't know that, Biblically, there is a distinction between Demons and Fallen Angels. Just spreading the knowledge :)
I'm curious.  Where in scripture do you see them differentiated?
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Crashfach2002 on January 07, 2010, 12:05:42 PM
I could be WAY off here, but is Lucifer ever called a demon?  If not he is a fallen angel followed by demons.
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Professoralstad on January 07, 2010, 12:37:35 PM
Without getting into any theological debates

So much for that. Interestingly enough, I've been around long enough to have added that clause with Polarius in mind. In answer to your question, other prof, I'm pretty sure that Genesis 6:2-4 is where Pol's line of thinking is most strongly supported, though there are many interpretations to that.

Quote from: Genesis 6:2-4, NIV
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with [a] man forever, for he is mortal ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

The sons of God here are often assumed to be angels, and since the idea of women reproducing with demons is odd, then the fallen angels would not be demons at all. I personally don't know how I would interpret the passage, but I have heard a lot of opinions.
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Crashfach2002 on January 07, 2010, 12:41:45 PM
I personally don't know how I would interpret the passage, but I have heard a lot of opinions.

They were aliens man!  :D
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Professoralstad on January 07, 2010, 12:44:18 PM
I personally don't know how I would interpret the passage, but I have heard a lot of opinions.

They were aliens man!  :D

To be perfectly honest, I have heard that interpretation as well.
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: STAMP on January 07, 2010, 01:16:18 PM
Fallen Angels and Demons are two different things. And neither one of them suddenly gets a second chance just because someone threw a net over them.

Bartles & James - Thank You For Your Suppoirt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIajxgBZkYY#)
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Minister Polarius on January 07, 2010, 02:27:06 PM
Genesis 6:2-4, Enoch 6-11, and logic. For the latter, one telling difference is the linguistic differences between biblical descriptions of Angels and Demons. Also, Angels (even Fallen angels) are able to manifest themselves with man-like bodies, yet Demons are always desperate for habitation. There's also the fact that, while even Michael would not rebuke Satan (clearly a fallen Angel) when fighting for Moses' body, we are encouraged to rebuke demons when we encounter them.

There's a lot of evidence, but it's "scary" so modern churches don't talk about it any more than they talk about sin or damnation. But this is a ruling thread, and I've hijacked enough for now :)
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Ironica on January 07, 2010, 03:25:51 PM
Genesis 6:2-4, Enoch 6-11, and logic. For the latter, one telling difference is the linguistic differences between biblical descriptions of Angels and Demons. Also, Angels (even Fallen angels) are able to manifest themselves with man-like bodies, yet Demons are always desperate for habitation. There's also the fact that, while even Michael would not rebuke Satan (clearly a fallen Angel) when fighting for Moses' body, we are encouraged to rebuke demons when we encounter them.

There's a lot of evidence, but it's "scary" so modern churches don't talk about it any more than they talk about sin or damnation. But this is a ruling thread, and I've hijacked enough for now :)

In your believe, then, where did the demons come from (just curious)?
Title: Re: Converting Angels
Post by: Professoralstad on January 07, 2010, 03:28:05 PM
I'm sure that Pol would love to continue the discussion with you and others, but perhaps all but the first three posts on the thread should be moved to Off-Topic?
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