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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: YourMathTeacher on March 22, 2010, 07:52:55 PM
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A converted Salome can still discard a captured hero (since captured heroes are not heroes), right?
Salome
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Gold • Ability: 6 / 6 • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard a captured Hero or the top card of opponent’s deck. If it is a Lost Soul, put it in play instead. May band to Herodias or a Herod. Cannot be negated if Herodias is in play. • Attributes: Royalty • Identifiers: NT Female Human, Royalty • Verse: Mark 6:25 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()
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Yes, her SA converts.
The big question is whether she can take advantage of The Garden Tomb. ;)
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I wouldn't think she could discard a captured hero but could discard the top card of opponent's deck.
And a bigger question is how many put Salome on their Garden Salad. :P
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I wouldn't think she could discard a captured hero but could discard the top card of opponent's deck.
And a bigger question is how many put Salome on their Garden Salad. :P
Now that is clever. Good job Stamp!! :laugh:
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I wouldn't think she could discard a captured hero but could discard the top card of opponent's deck.
Why not? Discarding a captured hero does not target a hero, since captured heroes are not heroes.
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I wouldn't think she could discard a captured hero but could discard the top card of opponent's deck.
Why not? Discarding a captured hero does not target a hero, since captured heroes are not heroes.
I agree. She is causing no harm to a hero, so unless the guidelines for converted abilities extend to heroes and captured heroes, her ability would work when converted.
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Captured heroes are no more heroes than horse apples are apples, or cow pies are pies, or prairie oysters are oysters...
SAs convert unless they do something mean to heroes. Salome does absolutely nothing to heroes (expect possibly raise their cholesterol ;) ).
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...and common sense ain't all that common. ;)
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The big question is whether she can take advantage of The Garden Tomb. ;)
This may have been just a joke, but I'm pretty sure the answer is "No" just the same as there being no Name-on-Name Bonus for Saul/Paul (as Saul) when he uses Saul's Spear or Saul's Javelin.
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Except name-on-name has nothing to do with special abilities.
To use an analogy STAMP would appreciate, they are completely separate kettles of fish. Do they put fish in kettles in the Pacific northwest?
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Except name-on-name has nothing to do with special abilities.
Sure it does. The reason Saul's spear doesn't work on Saul/Paul is because while the name is the same, the person is different.
I already asked about this, and I was told that the two salomes are completely different people, and only the hero version works with TGT.
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+1 T_T I know I was liek MWHAHAHAA! and then we were told no, then I was liek it can't be true thats IMPOSSIBLE! and they were like search your feelings you know it to be true! Then I was like NOOOOOOOOOOOO! You meatbag! you know?
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Twould be epic if she did though...self-ignore for the win!
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Except name-on-name has nothing to do with special abilities.
Sure it does. The reason Saul's spear doesn't work on Saul/Paul is because while the name is the same, the person is different.
What do you mean that Saul's Spear doesn't work on Saul/Paul? If Paul is in battle and somehow gets initiative, I can play Saul's Spear and gain 3/2. If Paul is then forced to fight a hero, the SA on Saul's Spear takes over and the strength numbers on the spear disappear.
What exactly is it that doesn't work since the ability and special ability both seem to kick in as expected?
Discussion of name-on-name are irrelevant here as that is based on a game rule that exists outside the cards, whereas Salome taking advantage of TGT is based on an in-game SA.
I already asked about this, and I was told that the two salomes are completely different people, and only the hero version works with TGT.
I agree that the two Salome's are completely different people. I even understand why TGT can't work with an evil Salome (either the gold EC or the converted white hero), because the Miriam ruling said you couldn't ignore your own alignment by game rule. What I don't understand is why if both are heroes only one of them would work with TGT since the SA on TGT doesn't limit itself, and then is no game rule preventing it.
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Except name-on-name has nothing to do with special abilities.
Sure it does. The reason Saul's spear doesn't work on Saul/Paul is because while the name is the same, the person is different.
What do you mean that Saul's Spear doesn't work on Saul/Paul? If Paul is in battle and somehow gets initiative, I can play Saul's Spear and gain 3/2. If Paul is then forced to fight a hero, the SA on Saul's Spear takes over and the strength numbers on the spear disappear.
What exactly is it that doesn't work since the ability and special ability both seem to kick in as expected?
Discussion of name-on-name are irrelevant here as that is based on a game rule that exists outside the cards, whereas Salome taking advantage of TGT is based on an in-game SA.
I typo'd. I meant to say the name on name does not work. If you play Saul's Spear on Saul, he will not get a 6/4 boost, because he is not the same person that Saul's Spear is referencing.
One is a game rule and the other is an ability yes, but in this case, BOTH look at who the character really is, rather than just the name.
+1 T_T I know I was liek MWHAHAHAA! and then we were told no, then I was liek it can't be true thats IMPOSSIBLE! and they were like search your feelings you know it to be true! Then I was like NOOOOOOOOOOOO! You meatbag! you know?
Statement: We have both been talking about too much Star Wars the past two days.
Exclamation: Lol.
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One is a game rule and the other is an ability yes, but in this case, BOTH look at who the character really is, rather than just the name.
I understand that that is your claim. What I am trying to get someone to explain is the reasoning behind the ruling.
Name-on-name looks at "who the character really is" by definition of name-on-name. It is specifically written into the rule.
SAs on the other hand do not, in general, look at "who the character really is." Instead they are supposed to be interpreted as written.
Why is TGT an exception to this? More importantly if a player asks me to make a ruling on another SA how can I determine if it is an "as written" SA or a "who the character really is" SA?
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I believe there is some precedent somewhere involving Joseph (high regent to Pharaoh) and Joseph (earthly father of the Son of God), but I can't recall what card has that ruling.
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Its Begging for Grain that has the precedent.
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Its Begging for Grain that has the precedent.
I don't think it does.
Begging for Grain states "Begging for Grain is negated if O.T. Joseph enters battle." The wording of the SA itself eliminates the NT Joseph from consideration.
Doesn't the fact that Begging for Grain has language specifically designed to limit it to one of two possible Josephs actually strengthen the interpretation that I am asking about above? If SAs on enhancements are limited to "who the character really is" why add extra verbiage in Begging for Grain? Wouldn't "Begging for Grain is negated if Joseph enters battle" do the trick by itself?
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If SAs on enhancements are limited to "who the character really is" why add extra verbiage in Begging for Grain?
For the same reason that cards from the same set say "Cannot be interrupted, prevented, or negated." They used a lot of excessive clarifying text.
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If SAs on enhancements are limited to "who the character really is" why add extra verbiage in Begging for Grain?
For the same reason that cards from the same set say "Cannot be interrupted, prevented, or negated." They used a lot of excessive clarifying text.
So your claim is that Joseph the Carpenter would not negate a Begging for Grain that said, "Begging for Grain is negated if Joseph enters battle?"
Does anyone else agree with that assessment?
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TGT refers only to the Salome that is mentioned in the scripture verse found on TGT.
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The PTB obviously would agree ;)
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So your claim is that Joseph the Carpenter would not negate a Begging for Grain that said, "Begging for Grain is negated if Joseph enters battle?"
Does anyone else agree with that assessment?
That is how I would have ruled.
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So your claim is that Joseph the Carpenter would not negate a Begging for Grain that said, "Begging for Grain is negated if Joseph enters battle?"
Does anyone else agree with that assessment?
That is how I would have ruled.
Seconded. However, if I ran a tourney, I would probably make a lot of silly rules. :D (JK)
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Seconded. However, if I ran a tourney, I would probably make a lot of silly rules. :D (JK)
You mean like having Nebuchadnezzar search for Red Dragon, or playing Peace Treaty to ignore that Red Dragon while Priestly Breastplate is active? ;)
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Seconded. However, if I ran a tourney, I would probably make a lot of silly rules. :D (JK)
You mean like having Nebuchadnezzar search for Red Dragon, or playing Peace Treaty to ignore that Red Dragon while Priestly Breastplate is active? ;)
Actually, only Royal Parade can do that. ::)
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TGT refers only to the Salome that is mentioned in the scripture verse found on TGT.
Just to be clear, and to answer the question I have been asking throughout the thread...
Is this ruling a one-off for TGT and Salome or is it a general ruling for all special abilities?
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TGT refers only to the Salome that is mentioned in the scripture verse found on TGT.
Just to be clear, and to answer the question I have been asking throughout the thread...
Is this ruling a one-off for TGT and Salome or is it a general ruling for all special abilities?
The latter.
But...I guess I'll have to go with MJB on this and request that it is offically documented in the new REG. Not everyone has the same Bible knowledge, and as I mentioned before, common sense ain't all that common, so it would be good to spell it out in the letter of the law.