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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: BubbleBoy on December 06, 2009, 01:31:57 PM

Title: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: BubbleBoy on December 06, 2009, 01:31:57 PM: So, I'm making a RA with a Damsel with Spirit of Divination converted to green brigade. I know that you cannot reveal opponent's hand, due to the "If blocking" condition on Damsel, but is the second sentence of the ability contingent upon the first? For example, if I played Tears for a Friend to reveal my hand, would I be able to draw cards for the number of brigades in it?

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Damsel with Spirit of Divination
Type: Evil Char. Brigade: Orange/Pale Green Ability: 6 / 7 Class: Special Ability: If blocking, reveal opponent's hand. For each good brigade revealed, draw a card. Cannot be interrupted. Attributes: Human, Magician, Prophet Identifiers: NT Male Human, Magician, Prophet Verse: Acts 16:16 Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs

Tears for a Friend
Type: Hero Enh. Brigade: Green Ability: 3 / 2 Class: None Special Ability: All players must reveal their hands. You may play the next Enhancement, which cannot be interrupted. Identifiers: None Verse: John 11:34-35 Availability: Priests booster packs (Uncommon)
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: Minister Polarius on December 06, 2009, 01:41:41 PM: No. The grammar of it makes it clear that the second depends on the first.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on December 06, 2009, 03:06:44 PM: Yeah, Damsel's ability is snuffed by the "if blocking" clause, and therefore does nothing. It doesnt sit there waiting for a hand to be revealed, it just doesnt work.

Example:

I RA with a hero that says "you may play a blue enhancement from hand" and I have no blue enhancements in my hand. I cant play a search card, get a blue enhancement, and THEN use it with the hero's ability, because the hero's ability has already finished.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: Warrior_Monk on December 06, 2009, 03:51:53 PM: doesn't seem to be an instant ability.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on December 06, 2009, 04:13:12 PM: Reveal and draw are both instant abilities.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: BubbleBoy on December 06, 2009, 04:16:13 PM: "For each good brigade revealed..." is a condition that could be met without Damsel's revealing ability.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on December 06, 2009, 04:18:27 PM: Just like how "artifact is negated" doesnt depend on the discarding of an artifact for DoN right? Yeah, good luck with that one. ;)

DoN was ruled to be one ability... I am 99% sure this one is too.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on December 06, 2009, 04:19:36 PM: DoN WAS ruled as one ability.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: BubbleBoy on December 06, 2009, 04:22:39 PM: Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on December 06, 2009, 04:18:27 PM
Just like how "artifact is negated" doesnt depend on the discarding of an artifact for DoN right? Yeah, good luck with that one. ;)

DoN was ruled to be one ability... I am 99% sure this one is too.
The wording of DoN is different. It's second clause refers to the item it is affecting in the first clause, and if the item was never affected in the first place, the second clause does nothing.

I may be arguing a doomed point, but I think this would be a cool and non-broken combo.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: Minister Polarius on December 06, 2009, 04:58:13 PM: I agree that it would be cool, disagree that it wouldn't be borken. Green already has Hur, and it would be easy to get Damsel to reveal a Brass Serpent in your hand. Combine that with the fact that Green is the strongest aggro rogue as well as pretty good at combo and the power balance would just be ridiculous.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on December 06, 2009, 05:04:59 PM: Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on December 06, 2009, 04:19:36 PM
DoN WAS ruled as one ability.

I know, I said that as well. :P

Both could be read as seperate abilities, but both are actually connected, with the second depending on the first.

DoN needs to discard in order to negate, Damsel needs to reveal with HER ability to draw.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: Cameron the Conqueror on December 06, 2009, 05:29:42 PM: Quote from: Lambo
I know, I said that as well. :P
I know, just backing up that extra one percent. Sorry...

DoN was ruled to be one ability... I am 99% sure this one is too.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: SirNobody on December 06, 2009, 07:02:00 PM: Hey,

The "For each good brigade revealed, draw a card" sentence in Damsel's ability is only referring to those revealed by the previous sentence on the card.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on December 06, 2009, 09:59:29 PM: Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on December 06, 2009, 04:18:27 PM
Just like how "artifact is negated" doesnt depend on the discarding of an artifact for DoN right? Yeah, good luck with that one. ;)

Philistine Priests XD
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: BubbleBoy on December 07, 2009, 07:53:57 AM: Quote from: SirNobody on December 06, 2009, 07:02:00 PM
The "For each good brigade revealed, draw a card" sentence in Damsel's ability is only referring to those revealed by the previous sentence on the card.
Why is this?
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: browarod on December 07, 2009, 10:47:37 AM: Quote from: BubbleBoy on December 07, 2009, 07:53:57 AM
Quote from: SirNobody on December 06, 2009, 07:02:00 PM
The "For each good brigade revealed, draw a card" sentence in Damsel's ability is only referring to those revealed by the previous sentence on the card.
Why is this?
Because the sentence by itself doesn't really make sense, so it must be referring back to the first sentence. "For each good brigade revealed" where? Revealed if I draw the Revealer Lost Soul, revealed if one or more hands are shown, revealed if an ability looks at the top and/or bottom card of a deck? There's no reference for the revealing in the second sentence, so it has to refer back to the first sentence in order to have a target for revealing.
Title: Re: Converted Damsel & Tears for a Friend
Post by: Warrior_Monk on December 07, 2009, 10:57:32 AM: Quote from: browarod on December 07, 2009, 10:47:37 AM
Quote from: BubbleBoy on December 07, 2009, 07:53:57 AM
Quote from: SirNobody on December 06, 2009, 07:02:00 PM
The "For each good brigade revealed, draw a card" sentence in Damsel's ability is only referring to those revealed by the previous sentence on the card.
Why is this?
Because the sentence by itself doesn't really make sense, so it must be referring back to the first sentence. "For each good brigade revealed" where? Revealed if I draw the Revealer Lost Soul, revealed if one or more hands are shown, revealed if an ability looks at the top and/or bottom card of a deck? There's no reference for the revealing in the second sentence, so it has to refer back to the first sentence in order to have a target for revealing.
+1
it doesn't say this turn, so the each would have to be a reference.