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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 02:29:32 PM

Title: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 02:29:32 PM
1) Deceitful Sin: If you have not used a search abilitiy this turn, end the battle.

This is card can only be negated by Gamaliel's Speech and Goodness right?

2) Moses' Parents

Is Jochebed and Moses' Parents considered the same unique character for in play guidelines?
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: kariusvega on April 20, 2016, 02:33:12 PM
1 pretty sure that this cannot be negated because it ends the battle and moves you into the discard phase

2 not sure
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Ironisaac on April 20, 2016, 02:37:07 PM
Technically, i don't think goodness is negating Deceitful sin is it? its an instead ability right?
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 02:38:27 PM
Like all "end the battle" abilities, once played you cannot interrupt the ability. That's why we've created cards like You Will Remain to offer alternate counters.

Jochebed is the same unique character as Moses' Parents. There are also 3 new Heroes that are unique to a single Hero printed in the past.
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on April 20, 2016, 02:38:48 PM
Great questions!

Deceitful Sin could be insteaded by Goodness, but KariusVega is correct that you cannot negate end the battle cards.

Jochebed and Moses' Parents are the same character.

We are still debating if the REG supports Moses' Parents being both Male and Female, or if they'll be ruled as genderless, what do you guys think?

INSTAPOSTED BY GABE.
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: kariusvega on April 20, 2016, 02:51:29 PM
I think it's a good idea that Moses parents can rescue the female only. Maybe dual gender? So cards that target either male or female could work? Does that exist yet? Haha
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 03:00:38 PM
Quote from: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 02:38:27 PM
That's why we've created cards like You Will Remain to offer alternate counters.

Well how can we believe you if we haven't seen it yet!  (hint hint, nudge nudge  ;))
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 03:00:38 PM
Quote from: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 02:38:27 PM
That's why we've created cards like You Will Remain to offer alternate counters.

Well how can we believe you if we haven't seen it yet!  (hint hint, nudge nudge  ;))

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 03:24:35 PM
Quote from: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 03:00:38 PM
Quote from: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 02:38:27 PM
That's why we've created cards like You Will Remain to offer alternate counters.

Well how can we believe you if we haven't seen it yet!  (hint hint, nudge nudge  ;))

Spoiler (hover to show)

You are so kind!   ;D

I'm also guessing we are going to make it a game rule that you can't make more than one rescue attempt per turn?  I can't tell you how many times I've seen a player play and end the battle card when their character loses the battle and still has to award a Lost Soul.  I know we want to avoid this granting a second rescue attempt!
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 03:32:26 PM
Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 03:24:35 PM
I'm also guessing we are going to make it a game rule that you can't make more than one rescue attempt per turn?  I can't tell you how many times I've seen a player play and end the battle card when their character loses the battle and still has to award a Lost Soul.  I know we want to avoid this granting a second rescue attempt!

That's already a rule. If you make a successful rescue attempt you are not allowed another rescue attempt until all other players have had a turn. We had to make that a few years ago when someone figured out how to take multiple turns in a row with A New Beginning. That was probably sometime before it's 11th errata. ::)
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Ironisaac on April 20, 2016, 03:36:51 PM
Quote from: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 03:00:38 PM
Quote from: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 02:38:27 PM
That's why we've created cards like You Will Remain to offer alternate counters.

Well how can we believe you if we haven't seen it yet!  (hint hint, nudge nudge  ;))

Spoiler (hover to show)


ooooh... i like it! i'm glad there are finally going to be some more decent covs!
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 03:41:14 PM
Quote from: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 03:32:26 PM
Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 03:24:35 PM
I'm also guessing we are going to make it a game rule that you can't make more than one rescue attempt per turn?  I can't tell you how many times I've seen a player play and end the battle card when their character loses the battle and still has to award a Lost Soul.  I know we want to avoid this granting a second rescue attempt!

That's already a rule. If you make a successful rescue attempt you are not allowed another rescue attempt until all other players have had a turn. We had to make that a few years ago when someone figured out how to take multiple turns in a row with A New Beginning. That was probably sometime before it's 11th errata. ::)

I knew that was talked about and thought it was a rule, but couldn't remember.  So lets say the situation I gave happens, is the player able to make a battle challenge, or because they made a rescue attempt they can't do another battle at all?
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 03:57:40 PM
It took some digging but I found the ruling buried here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/redemption-official-rules/rule-clarifications-additions-and-edits/msg386407/#msg386407).

I believe that was before we introduced "restrict". Since the ruling is restricting a player from performing a game action they would not be able to begin a rescue attempt but I don't see anything stopping them from beginning a battle challenge.
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: RedemptionAggie on April 20, 2016, 04:09:26 PM
What happens if You Will Remain is active and an ETB card is played in a side battle when it's not your turn?  Or during any side battle?  Might need to say "during your rescue attempt", instead of "this turn".

Looking for other unique groups of characters, we have:
All Female: Philip's Daughters, Foreign Wives
All Male: Noah's Sons, The Magi, Seven Sons of Sceva
Genderless: The Jeering Youths
Potentially Mixed: The Ephesian Elders, The Generous Givers, Reassuring Angels, Job's Three Friends, The Entrapping Pharisees, Mary's Seven Demons, The Judean Mediums

I think everything in the potentially mixed group is assumed to be male.  Most of the generic groups are male.  As long as ruling Moses' Parents as Male and Female doesn't create an influx of similarly gendered cards, I don't see a problem with it.
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: The Guardian on April 20, 2016, 04:27:50 PM
You can never begin any kind of rescue or battle challenge on your opponent's turn by game rule.
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: spacy32 on April 20, 2016, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on April 20, 2016, 02:38:48 PM
Great questions!

Deceitful Sin could be insteaded by Goodness, but KariusVega is correct that you cannot negate end the battle cards.

Jochebed and Moses' Parents are the same character.

We are still debating if the REG supports Moses' Parents being both Male and Female, or if they'll be ruled as genderless, what do you guys think?

INSTAPOSTED BY GABE.


I vote male and female to give it an even more unique feel. and They would not be genderless at all.
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: TheHobbit13 on April 20, 2016, 04:58:03 PM
What about Angry Mob is that genderless too? It seems to me by the same logic used to justify the classification of the Jeering Youths it would also have to be.

I think the genderless classification should be used when either A) we are not sure exactly if there are all male or female members and B) if an ability that would potentially target a minority destroys the majority as well.

Because we know the sex of both parents, I feel like it's fine to call them both. There's not been a precedent so far, I think it's fine to start one now.
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Gabe on April 21, 2016, 12:33:00 AM
Quote from: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 03:57:40 PM
It took some digging but I found the ruling buried here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/redemption-official-rules/rule-clarifications-additions-and-edits/msg386407/#msg386407).

I believe that was before we introduced "restrict". Since the ruling is restricting a player from performing a game action they would not be able to begin a rescue attempt but I don't see anything stopping them from beginning a battle challenge.

The rule was actually added to the REG. It can be found in the glossary under Rescue Attempt.
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: KingLeo on April 24, 2016, 03:49:21 PM
Quote from: Ironisaac on April 20, 2016, 03:36:51 PM
Quote from: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: Crashfach2002 on April 20, 2016, 03:00:38 PM
Quote from: Gabe on April 20, 2016, 02:38:27 PM
That's why we've created cards like You Will Remain to offer alternate counters.

Well how can we believe you if we haven't seen it yet!  (hint hint, nudge nudge  ;))

Spoiler (hover to show)


ooooh... i like it! i'm glad there are finally going to be some more decent covs!

when the covenant says remove does it mean discard captured or removed or specifically removed from the game.
Title: Re: Cloud of Witnesses Questions
Post by: Gabe on April 24, 2016, 04:17:37 PM
It means removed from the battle in any way... discard, withdraw, underdeck, capture, etc.
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