Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: soul seeker on October 25, 2011, 01:04:33 PM
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I am looking more for approval than clarification.
The "Exchange" ability is different than the "Search" ability, correct?
The question behind the question--> Nazareth and Hezzy's Ring cannot stop an "exchange from deck" ability, right?
I tried checking this site and the reg, and I think I am correct in what I have found.
* The closest I found was Gabe stating that "Look" and "Search" are similar but different abilities.
If the above is wrong, then I will want proof. :maul:
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Show me how you can exchange a card without searching for its location in the deck....
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An exchange is not the same as a Search. Exchanging contains a search.
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Why would they have separate definitions in the REG if they were the same?
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One contains the other. Any time you're fetching a card from deck or discard, there is a search involved.
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Polarius is correct. Exchange and search are distinct abilities, however exchange to deck/discard inherently includes a search. The distinction is that if something stops exchange abilities it does not stop search abilities, but if something stops searches (like the OP's question) it also stops exchanges to deck/discard.
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I can't decide if I have an issue with this or not. "Look" and "Reveal" abilities have inherent searches in them as well (though limited in scope--but they are still checking the deck for something) and yet are not blocked by Naz and HSR.* How is it that exchanges are blocked just because they have a larger scope of cards to go through then "look" and "Reveal?"
*Some look and reveal cards (that can "search" for something pretty deep into deck depending on situation) involve: Susanna, Eve, John Promo, etc. *
What I'm getting as, is why are some of the cards limited by Naz and HSR and others are not?
Anytime, people "look" at cards in a deck without drawing can constitute a "search." If it is a search (no matter what type or limitation), then Naz and HSR should be applied.
Additionally, if some abilities have "inherent searches" in them, then they should be listed in the Reg as additional abilities that cards like Naz & HSR can stop. Why separate out abilities and definitions if they are stopped any way because of an inherently-contained ability that is stopped? (a.k.a. Why separate the abilities "exchange" and "search" if exchanges are stopped by anti-search cards because of some "inherent" search ability?)
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Reveal shows your opponent what you are getting and is in sequential order. Same goes with look. You have a limit of cards you can go through in your deck. Neither of which changes the location of the card afterwards. The player has no idea what those cards are going to be. Exchange goes after a card you are looking for, as does search. Exchange just puts a card in the place of the desired card whereas search takes the desired card from the deck. It would be VERY broken if Nazareth did not stop exchange abilities.
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Exchange and search have to be separate abilities because exchanges do not always include searches. Seven Wicked Spirits wouldn't work properly if it was a search, but an exchange works perfectly. Stalks of Flax is another example.
Exchange only includes a search when you are exchanging with a location whose contents are not common knowledge, and that's because without a search you wouldn't be able to find the card you want to exchange with.
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Reveal shows your opponent what you are getting and is in sequential order. Same goes with look. You have a limit of cards you can go through in your deck. Neither of which changes the location of the card afterwards. The player has no idea what those cards are going to be. Exchange goes after a card you are looking for, as does search. Exchange just puts a card in the place of the desired card whereas search takes the desired card from the deck. It would be VERY broken if Nazareth did not stop exchange abilities.
To add, the actual card(s) location is known for a "look" or "reveal", whereas it is unknown for a search.
Which begs the question, "Do we currently have a card with an exchange ability that exchanges with a known card location in deck or discard?" If so, then that type of exchange does not contain a search.
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I don't know of any that exist, but I could easily see an ability such as "exchange <something> with the top/bottom card of deck" such as for Magician/Demon support.