Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Sean on January 10, 2010, 12:17:50 AM
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I use Hero A to band to Hero B. I use Hero B's special ability to allow me to play a game of hide and seek with my opponent's deck. My opponent decides that he doesn't like hide and seek anymore so he blocks with 12FG (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/thetwelvefingeredgiant.htm) and negates the banding believing that the cascade resulting for negation of the band would render my game of hide and seek null and void. Is my opponent correct?
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Generically speaking, yes, your game of hide and seak is indirectly negated.
In Redemption terms it actually depends on the real SA of character B. If it's a play next ability or something that cannot be interrupted/negated then it sticks.
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If neither the band nor "hide and seek" have "cannot be prevented" status, then he would be correct, I think.
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'Cannot be Interrupted' actually seeing as the abilites came before TFG.
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'Cannot be Interrupted' actually seeing as the abilites came before TFG.
Um? So what if he can interrupt them? It's the preventing that would fizzle the "hide and seek" not the interrupting....
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Prevents only stop abilities in the future.
To stop an ability that has already happened, you must interrupt it.
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Prevents only stop abilities in the future.
To stop an ability that has already happened, you must interrupt it.
But simply interrupting it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, whereas preventing it does. Interrupt inherently needs something else to do more than pause the game. In this case, either "Cannot be prevented" or "Cannot be interrupted" would keep Hero B's effect from being fizzled by TFG.
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No, Absolutely not. CBP on Hero B does nothing. TFG negates (the ability on Hero A, Effectively Hero B never entered battle, since this ability happened after the Hero was added we say that it's ability was 'interrupted'.
Interrupts do not need prevents to go along with them in order to stop an ability.
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When did I say the CBP was on Hero B? An interrupt (in my experience and understanding) by itself does nothing but pause the game. It needs something else, whether a prevent or a play next or w/e, in order to actually change anything.
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"Cannot be prevented" or "Cannot be interrupted" would keep Hero B's effect from being fizzled by TFG.
Technically you didn't specify so I assumed that it was on Hero B, so I apologize for that.
Regardless of which hero it was on CBP does nothing against the interrupt ability of TFG, and Hero B still fizzles.
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Hmm, you are half right. CBP would not keep Hero B from fizzling unless both Heroes A and B were CBP. Then, if TFG was presented, he would interrupt, but then nothing else would happen, time would resume, the band would re-form, and Hero B would do it's thing. Unless I'm completely wrong about how interrupt works, I believe this is how it would go.
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The situation that happened in which Sean is referring to, *I was the one it happened to...xp* was that my opponent came in with Cherubim banded to King Lemuel. Used lemuel's effect. I came in with 12fg. Would 12FG negate lemuel's effect due to the fact that it negated the banding that brought him in?
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Yes. 12FG indirectly negates KL.
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Hmm, you are half right. CBP would not keep Hero B from fizzling unless both Heroes A and B were CBP. Then, if TFG was presented, he would interrupt, but then nothing else would happen, time would resume, the band would re-form, and Hero B would do it's thing. Unless I'm completely wrong about how interrupt works, I believe this is how it would go.
No, a negate is NOT truely "interrupt and then prevent"
You can play a full negate and kill a CBP ability. The way you describe it, a CBP would be just as good as a CBN.
CBP ONLY stops cards from being pre-emptively negated, such as during FBTN. They fail to negates afterwards.
CBI ONLY stops cards from being negated afterwards. They fail during FBTN.
CBN does both.
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Ok. That is what I thought. It really didn't make a difference in the match because I still got creamed anyway. xp That is what I get for playing Brad's wife everytime there is a tourney. ;D
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No, a negate is NOT truely "interrupt and then prevent"
You can play a full negate and kill a CBP ability. The way you describe it, a CBP would be just as good as a CBN.
CBP ONLY stops cards from being pre-emptively negated, such as during FBTN. They fail to negates afterwards.
CBI ONLY stops cards from being negated afterwards. They fail during FBTN.
CBN does both.
O_o Really? When did that change?
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...Never?
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It's been like that since I started playing years ago...and during my hiatis...and my return...xp
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When I learned Redemption several years ago, negate meant "interrupt and prevent". Now you say it doesn't. Did I just learn incorrectly at the start?
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In most cases it is similar to interrupt and prevent. The main case it's not is when you have a negate played after a CBP. if it was truely interupt and then prevent, you would be right. However, negate is its own term that GENERALLY plays like int+prev, but can negate a CBP after it has been played.
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Okay, I think I just got confused about CBP when it started showing up.
Thanks for the clarification ^_^
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Yeah, personally I think more cards should just be CBP instead of CBN or CBI. Helps during FBTN, and can be used to your advantage in FBTN, but its not unstoppable after the fact like the other two.
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or play the cbp ls too. works wonders.
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In most cases it is similar to interrupt and prevent. The main case it's not is when you have a negate played after a CBP. if it was truely interupt and then prevent, you would be right. However, negate is its own term that GENERALLY plays like int+prev, but can negate a CBP after it has been played.
I'm very disappointed in how the whole interrupt, prevent and negate process now works. It generally gave me headaches when judging my tournaments. I dare say that without my fishing hobby I would have retired because of it. :-\
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or play the cbp ls too. works wonders.
Yeah, my comment was directed more towards the huge amounts of CBI / CBN stuff we've been getting lately.
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Yeah, personally I think more cards should just be CBP instead of CBN or CBI. Helps during FBTN, and can be used to your advantage in FBTN, but its not unstoppable after the fact like the other two.
Isn't FBTN an ongoing ability, though? So, wouldn't it fail to prevent a CBP but then negate it anyway immediately after it's played?
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Yes its ongoing, but it'd continously try to prevent the ability, which it can't do. You can't interrupt something beforehand.