I'm assuming that "captured demon" is not the same as "demon", much like captured hero vs hero.
Can captured demons be banded into battle?Nope.
You can't band to heros in Raiders Camp because "captured hero" is not the same as "hero". It has already been answered that "captured demon" is not the same as "demon". The captured demon is not treated as a lost soul; it is just treated as a "captured demon" and an evil card.+1
If you had a card that banded to "captured demons" then I guess you could but I don't think that will happen.
Wait, captured demons are not treated as Lost Souls? If they're just treated as Evil cards, can you use cards that discard evil cards to discard their captured demons?
I am sure of what is in my announcement. My rulings on all the questions below are my best guesses.If I capture a demon, do I control the card? I can't think of any play off the top of my head where this would matter, but I could see it being used to pay a cost or discard an evil card if needed.Yes you would control it. Yes you could use it to pay the cost of discarding an evil card.
Demons are a subset of Evil Characters. Are "captured demons" a subset of "captured Evil Characters?"Evil Characters are a card type, so it makes sense that Demons are a subtype of them.
do you mean....
the two subsets of ECs are demons and humans. in the same way, the two subsets of captures ECs are captured demons and captures humans (treated as lost souls)
Demons are a subset of Evil Characters. Are "captured demons" a subset of "captured Evil Characters?"Evil Characters are a card type, so it makes sense that Demons are a subtype of them.
I don't remember hearing of "captured Evil Characters" being a specific category, therefore I don't know that it has subtypes. Where are you going with this line of thinking?
Ashpenaz and Leper Colony are two cards that specifically affect "captured human heroes" which we've all just assumed is the subset of captured hero that are humans. Which makes me think that "captured demon" is the same as "captured demonic Evil Character" which is a subset of "captured Evil Character.""captured human heroes" could just as easily be "captured heroes" (a group that is actually identified previously) who happen to have a "human" identifier. Similarly "captured demons" could simply be "captured evil characters" (a group that is actually identified previously) who happen to have a "demon" identifier.
There aren't any cards currently that refer to them.And I'm not necessarily against having them become a specific card type in the future. I'm just trying to figure out what the motivation is behind trying to do it now. If there's no affect on the game, I'd rather just avoid introducing more "special language" into the game until we have to. Sometimes adding stuff like that can have unintended consequences.
That doesn't mean that there couldn't be in the future.
"captured human heroes" could just as easily be "captured heroes" (a group that is actually identified previously) who happen to have a "human" identifier. Similarly "captured demons" could simply be "captured evil characters" (a group that is actually identified previously) who happen to have a "demon" identifier.
I find your verbiage confusing.I'll try to make it simple. The phrase "captured demons" is not currently referred to as "special language" on any cards. I don't want to agree to it becoming "special language" unless there is a good reason to. Maybe other elders want to make that call, but I don't feel comfortable doing it without knowing more about what repercussions it will have.
Hey,do you mean....Basically, although there are three subsets of Evil Characters, humans, demons, and animals.
the two subsets of ECs are demons and humans. in the same way, the two subsets of captures ECs are captured demons and captures humans (treated as lost souls)
I'm totally going to set it up so that The Serpent becomes a Redeemed Soul. :-*I dunno why The Serpent was ever an animal to begin with, tbqh. It should have simply been a Beast (Demon).
There aren't any cards currently that refer to them.
Maybe he should have said any USEFUL cards...With the current ruling, WttF might be MORE useful than it was intended (since it can get your captured demons back).
It's 100x more useful. Which is still 0. This won't change the fact that people don't use that card. This won't change the fact that people don't use orange. This won't change the fact that people don't use defense.Maybe he should have said any USEFUL cards...With the current ruling, WttF might be MORE useful than it was intended (since it can get your captured demons back).
And yet I see far more herolite decks than defenselite. Also, orange is used a lot....It's 100x more useful. Which is still 0. This won't change the fact that people don't use that card. This won't change the fact that people don't use orange. This won't change the fact that people don't use defense.Maybe he should have said any USEFUL cards...With the current ruling, WttF might be MORE useful than it was intended (since it can get your captured demons back).
Also, orange is used a lot....
Also, orange is used a lot....
Not in Minnesota!
Hey,
I have an Evil Character that is a demon. It gets captured. The rules say that it then becomes a captured Evil Character.
I have an Evil Character that is a demon. It gets captured. I assume that it then qualifies as a "captured demon."
A captured Evil Character is a neutral card. This new ruling says a captured demon is an evil card. So my demon is now both a neutral card and an evil card?
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Where have you been? I know for a fact that 3 of the 4 top decks in T1-2P were defenselite.And yet I see far more herolite decks than defenselite. Also, orange is used a lot....It's 100x more useful. Which is still 0. This won't change the fact that people don't use that card. This won't change the fact that people don't use orange. This won't change the fact that people don't use defense.Maybe he should have said any USEFUL cards...With the current ruling, WttF might be MORE useful than it was intended (since it can get your captured demons back).
So, can Worse than the First get my generic demon from LOB? Road apples are not apples, and captured demons are not demons....
So why are peanuts nuts? I am confus :c.
I've been in Wisconsin, actually. Despite the prevailing attitude on this board, Minnesota and Nationals are not where the only important facets of the game happen. I wish you people would remember that there are others out there that play Redemption.Where have you been? I know for a fact that 3 of the 4 top decks in T1-2P were defenselite.And yet I see far more herolite decks than defenselite. Also, orange is used a lot....It's 100x more useful. Which is still 0. This won't change the fact that people don't use that card. This won't change the fact that people don't use orange. This won't change the fact that people don't use defense.Maybe he should have said any USEFUL cards...With the current ruling, WttF might be MORE useful than it was intended (since it can get your captured demons back).
A captured Evil Character is a neutral card. This new ruling says a captured demon is an evil card. So my demon is now both a neutral card and an evil card?Finally I see at least one of the motivations behind you push to add more special language about demons that get captured. Anyway Rob said that they will still be evil cards, therefore that's what I'm gonna call them. LSs are neutral (which is why other captured characters are considered neutral), but since demons don't turn into LSs, I think it makes sense that they stay evil.
So why are peanuts nuts?Peanuts actually are NOT nuts. They are legumes, which is closer to a lima bean than a nut.
It says you may return up to seven of your generic demons from LOB. You can't do that beings, after being captured, they aren't demons, they are captured demons.
Similarly, AOCP says to discard all ECs. Captured ECs would not be discarded because they aren't ECs, they are captured ECs.
Regardless, WttF still won't help you get back any of your demons in your opponent's LoB, since they are not "yours". So no matter what happens, that part of the ability is very unlikely to be very useful.Aww, you're right :(
Regardless, WttF still won't help you get back any of your demons in your opponent's LoB, since they are not "yours". So no matter what happens, that part of the ability is very unlikely to be very useful.
QuoteRegardless, WttF still won't help you get back any of your demons in your opponent's LoB, since they are not "yours". So no matter what happens, that part of the ability is very unlikely to be very useful.
How can that happen to a card that just came out? Cmon guys! Im tired of seeing messed up cards. Did someone not see interaction between DoU/Golgotha? How am i suppose to capture my own demons?
Worse than the First (Di)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Orange • Ability: None • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Return up to seven of your generic demons in Tartaros, set-aside area, or Land of Bondage to territory or, search discard pile for a generic demon. • Identifiers: NT, Connected with Demons • Verse: Luke 11:26 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()
I think in the future when using the word your in a card playtesters need to look at all ramifications.
We're all human.
So...You can redeem an animal and human, but not a demon, right? That's the official rule'n?
Daniel
;D
Seeing as I'm not made of money and have never been to a tournament that was higher than a State level, my playgroup is the only one about which I can speak (and all your exhibits are thus stricken from the record). I and one other regular were the only ones to regularly use speed decks (of which most of your examples fall into). A few others either tried random speed decks or adopted them recently. A few others that visited our playgroup from elsewhere used speed decks (probably the people you claim to be in "the area around" me). That is the extent of "defenselite" in "my area". Our "meta" is very different than the "traditional" meta. We've had a red WC deck win T1-2P on several occasions, if that tells you anything. When Gabe visited last month, his Disciples deck kicked most (if not all) of our butts. So, no, it's not safe to say that defenselite is extremely prevalent in this area as the vast majority of our decks are what you call "balanced". It would very much help your case if you actually got your facts straight :P.
In regards to herolite, I speak entirely from decks posted on this forum. I see far more herolite deck ideas (especially with Zebulun and Watchful Servant releasing recently) than defenselite ones.
My comment regarding orange being used a lot was in response to both what my playgroup has used and the large number of posted decks I see using orange (which I assume people actually use, but that is perhaps an incorrect assumption).
My facts are perfectly straight, and it amuses me that after saying that you wish MN people would realize that other people play redemption too, you throw out my argument because its comprised entirely of people not in your playgroup?
I wasn't discounting "everyone else", I was pointing out that the people I have most contact with are using other decks which is why my experience with decks is different than yours.
And then you support my argument by saying that people coming to your tournaments are using speed/defense lite decks.
I was pointing out that the majority of speed users were people outside my playgroup which, as I said above, is what I have the most experience with.
When I said 'The area around you' I was referring to both the north central region, and the midwest region. Obviously I can't talk about every single individual playgroup since I don't make it a habit to travel around the country playing with every single redemption group - And I even mentioned that I didn't doubt that your playgroup was using a different meta, and I didn't even say that that was a bad thing, I think its cool that red WC decks were winning tournaments - I'm pretty sure Joshua K. was using one of those red WC decks, and he's a very good player, so I think that plays into it also.
In regards to posted decks, I agree, more people do tend to post defense heavy decks, however I tend to think that the people playing the defense-lite decks are the players like Gabe and I who don't post our decks until after the season.
Well, I go off what I see, if that's a crime I'm sorry >_<.
How can that happen to a card that just came out? Cmon guys! Im tired of seeing messed up cards. Did someone not see interaction between DoU/Golgotha? How am i suppose to capture my own demons?
I think in the future when using the word your in a card playtesters need to look at all ramifications.
We're all human.
I hope that WttF gets a similar Play As, ....
I noticed that, too. XDI hope that WttF gets a similar Play As, ....
Am I the only one that thinks this is a bad abbreviation for a Redemption card?
I hope that WttF gets a similar Play As, ....
Am I the only one that thinks this is a bad abbreviation for a Redemption card?