Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Currently, no, but there has been motion by people like Gabe and Bryon to want to change that.

All rules and conditions that apply to Lost Souls apply to captured characters treated as Lost Souls.  For example, captured characters treated as a Lost Soul may be placed in access sites, just as regular Lost Soul cards.  These imprisoned characters are technically not Lost Souls, but are treated as Lost Soul cards.  Only a card that affects Lost Soul cards is able to affect that character held prisoner, unless a card specifies “captured Hero” or “captured Evil Character.”

Captured characters treated as Lost Souls return to their owner’s draw pile if a special ability returns it to a draw pile (shuffled, placed beneath, etc.).  The shuffled character cards return to face value.

When capturing a character, if you are causing your opponent to be losing, they have the initiative to play the next card.  In these situations, the only thing they can play is an interrupt or a negate card (see Losing by Removal in the rulebook [p. 21]), otherwise there is no character to play any other enhancements on.

Captured characters retain their identity, therefore must conform to the restrictions of duplicates in play.  Should a character by the same name be already in a player’s territory or set aside area, the holder of the duplicates determines which duplicate to discard.  Because a captured character is treated as a Lost Soul, it cannot be discarded by Christian Martyr or Angel of the Lord.  The drawback to playing a capture card is that you will have to defend additional lost souls in your land of bondage (available for your opponent to rescue).  A battle challenge can become a rescue attempt if a card is captured and made available as a Lost Soul during a battle.

I bolded what I thought said they would NOT keep it and italiced what I thought said they WOULD keep it.  I'm really not sure either way...but maybe that'll help in making decision if some are trying to get it changed to one way or the other.....

Do you really want people to be able to band Lost Souls out of the Land of Bondage into battle?

We already have cards that band captured characters out of the land of bondage.

Ezra and Unbound are the two I was thinking of.  Yes, the don't band directly from LoB to battle, the characters go from LoB to territory, then to battle.

I agree, but what does that have to do with acknowledging their brigade color?

Ditto.   

Do captured charachters still keep their SA's?  for instance if esther (promo) is captured, is everyone still immune to hamman's plot except haaman?

I don't think that's what Mr. Fgamer was saying. I think he was pointing out which sections he thought pointed to them keeping brigade color ("retain their identity...") and which sections he thought didn't, if I'm understanding him correctly.

hey,

Here are some cards that would be affected by having captured characters keep their brigade:
- Elon
- Lost Soul - Jeremiah 17:9
- Pushed Back
- Job Overcomes
- Haman's Plot Exposed
- Sin Offering
- Covenant Breakers
- Lost Soul - Proverbs 22:10
- Judge's Seat
- Stronghold in the Desert
- The Garden Tomb
- The Lord Fights For You
- Two Bears
- Antiochus IV Epiphanes

I'm thinking it would be much simpler to say that they do not keep their brigade.
- Ignore - If I ignore Gold brigade, (how) does that affect my ability to rescue a Gold brigade captured ec? Currently, it doesn't, but the question would undoubtably come up.
- Played Against - If I am attacking, am I "Playing against" the Lost Soul? What if it is affecting my special ability? Currently, I'm pretty sure I'm not playing against the LS, but the question would come up.
- Immune - Currently, there is no issue here as captured characters cannot affect other characters, but what if there were a card that, when captured, negated all banding on characters. If the attacker were then immune to that brigade, could they band?

** As of right now, captured characters do keep their name - doubles in play rule.
** Do captured characters keep their humanity/demoninity/angelinity/genericinity? Can I capture a captured human with Head of Gold?
** How 'bout their identifiers/classifiers? Can I protect my captured green brigade Prophet from capture with Obadiah's Caves (assuming, of course, that you can capture a captured character)?

... just some thoughts

L8er,
Gil

Do captured charachters still keep their SA's?  for instance if esther (promo) is captured, is everyone still immune to hamman's plot except haaman?

hey,
I believe Esther (Boaz, Aaron, Achan, Sheba, & Absalom) does(/do) still work - but only due to the fact that her(/their) special ability is ongoing and lasts "while (they are) in play". Not because special abilities work when the character is captured.
L8er,
Gil

Edit: Death & Hades, eleazar the Guard, and Judas Iscariot do not work because they specify "while this CHARACTER remains in play"

hey,
More thoughts ...

In the above quoted "Capture - How to Use" section, I would only italicize the statement that "Captured characters retain their identity". It's the only thing I think could weigh in on elements that are retained when the Character is captured. In fact, the word "identity" is only used twice in the REG - once here and once in "Convert - General Description" and it is not defined either spot. Is it only the name of a character that is their "identity" or is it more inclusive (and, therefore, indicative that the Brigade is retained)?

Some other possible elements of a character's "identity":
- Name - Captured Characters retain their name - see the duplicates in play rule. A weird twist is that Ananias could convert a captured Saul to a captured Paul.
- Brigade - I do not see anything currently in the rules that state that captured characters keep their brigade.  Also, none of the cards I listed earlier indicate one way or the other. It seems to me that there is an implied rule currently that Captured Characters do not retain their brigade as (in my understanding) cards treated as neutral (like Lost Soul Sites) do not count toward the number of Good brigades in play. Do most people currently play that captured characters keep their brigade? If not, are we interested in changing how the cards in the above mentioned list work (especially since a number of them are from very recent years)?
- Strength/Toughness - Leper Colony only works if Captured Characters retain their numbers. Also, Athaliah ("Character gains 1/1 for each Purple Brigade Hero discarded or captured while she is in play.") continues to work. The special ability specifies, "while in play", so just like Esther, every indication is that it would continue. 
- Idenitifiers - (to answer my own question with TimMerz' help) Captured Characters do not retain their identifiers/classifications including "Human", "Prophet", "Giant", etc ... based on 1) the REG Glossary --> each entry (at least most of them do) states, "One possible role of a character is ...", and 2) the REG Glossary entry for "Character" which states that Redemption has two types of characters - they are Heroes and Evil Characters" (not Lost Souls). However, if Morgan is Captured, does his identifier of "same unique character as Morg" still apply?
- Special Ability - Unless specified otherwise, Characters' special abilities only take effect when they are in the field of battle. It seems to me that characters with ongoing abilities that stay with the character "until discarded" or "until they leave play" still work when the Character is captured. This is not an indication, however, that Special Abilities work on Captured Characters. I believe they do not, though I could not find any indication of this in the REG. 
- Gained Abilities - In general (my understanding is that) a gained ability (like Gathering of Angels) stays with a character until it is discarded, put in hand, or put in draw pile. I believe this means it would keep the gained ability, but it would not take effect because it is not in the battle (unless it is ongoing until the Character is removed from play - which none of the current cards allow).
- "Bearing" cards - (Update: (Thanx, Shaef for the rulebook citation!) Weapon Class enhancements are discarded when a Character is captured). Although I could not find any indication either way regarding whether or not other cards that Characters are "Bearing" stay with the Character when it is captured (Joseph, Warrior/Weapon Class, Poisons/Diseases, Placed Cards, Simon of Cyrene, Ahab's Armor, etc ...), the question remains whether they follow the Character or whether they follow the same pattern as Weapon Class Enhancements.
- Bible Reference - Levi references a "captured Genesis Hero" - indicating that Captured Characters retain their Bible Verse.

I think we should probably:
1) Change the wording on "Capture - How to Use" & "Convert - General Description" - probably to remove the word, "identity". Or, we should define "identity" officially.
2) Determine which of these elements are retained when a character is captured.
3) Spell that out somewhere official-like.

- "Bearing" cards - I could not find any indication either way regarding whether or not cards that Characters are "Bearing" stay with the Character when it is captured (Joseph, Warrior/Weapon Class, Poisons/Diseases, Simon of Cyrene, Ahab's Armor, etc ...).

Rulebook: If a warrior is discarded or captured, or returned to hand, all weapon cards on the character are discarded.

I would additionally apply this to any other cards "held" by that character.

This is not an indication, however, that Special Abilities work on Captured Characters. I believe they do not, though I could not find any indication of this in the REG.

That's because there's no need for it.  You said it yourself: characters can only activate by entering the Field of Battle.

with a neatly trimmed mustache and beard third fist disguised as a chin with a beard

Fixed

Only inasmuch as it is possible to have a generic character converted.  I'm sure you agree with me that a generic character can be converted, and that character would also retain its name as well.  Besides, if you actually thought they were two completely different ideas, you would not have suggested yourself that identity-as-name-only was one of two possible definitions.

It has to do with unique characters.  Whether the card name is different or not is not really the point.  That a generic character can retain its name while not having a specific identity, is.

The current rule is no.  What we're waiting on now is to see whether that will change to yes.