Author Topic: UPDATE: Can You Play Dominants During the Draw Phase? -- Yes! (Read 5313 times)

Praeceps · « **Reply #25 on:** June 13, 2014, 12:12:54 AM »

Consensus doesn't mean unanimous...

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 13, 2014, 12:31:42 AM »

It also doesn't mean someone actively disagreeing...

Chris · « **Reply #27 on:** June 13, 2014, 12:53:23 AM »

It's true that there is rarely going to be a true consensus, but if there's an active disagreement on this side of the boards, I think the issue can be understood to not be definitively ruled.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #28 on:** June 13, 2014, 06:28:16 AM »

There was a consensus. Gabe doesn't count.... unless he posts here within the next 24 hours to refute me.

* I've always wanted to try the new Taunt ability.

Minion of Jesus · « **Reply #29 on:** June 13, 2014, 09:05:13 AM »

Quote from: Redoubter on June 12, 2014, 09:25:31 PM

Quote from: Westy on June 12, 2014, 09:14:28 PM
The issue is now there's a reason to play SoG in the draw phase, namely on the revealer or hopper to negate it.

This was specifically ruled against. You can do it to negate the soul if Hopper or Revealer is drawn in Prep, Battle, or Discard, but not during Draw or Upkeep. I can't find the thread right now, but there was an interesting discussion on that...anyone else know where it is?

Quote from: Minion of Jesus on June 12, 2014, 09:18:00 PM
In regards to playing it in draw phase later, if somebody is about to play SoG and NJ for the win and you see it coming as they draw it, you can slam Mayhem and shuffle their deck (that is, if Mayhem hits the table before your opponents doms). I won a multiplayer tournament this way.

If they were playing it in response to their own drawing at the beginning of the turn, it takes precedence over Mayhem. Just saying.

Ridiculous. Well, I will remember that for the future.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #30 on:** June 13, 2014, 09:07:27 AM »

My understanding of the system is that when 2 or more of the Elders agree in a thread about a ruling, then it can be considered official unless another elder posts in that thread that they disagree. In cases where there is disagreement, then the elders take the issue to the other side of the board to discuss it together. When they come to a conclusion, then they return to the original thread to post the consensus view, and all the Elders then support that ruling regardless of their personal opinions on the matter.

As for this particular thread, I agree with Redoubter that dominants would NOT be played during "Draw" phase of the turn. The "Draw" phase is indeed simply drawing the 3 (or 4 with Seven Years of Plenty) cards. When that has been done, the "Draw" phase is immediately over, and the "Upkeep" phase has begun.

The "Upkeep" phase is a bit more complex though. There are automatic parts like adding counters to anything requiring them (ie. set asides). But there are also optional parts (ie. underdecking a disciple in Fishing Boat to draw cards) that players choose whether to do or not. Considering that players can make these choices during "Upkeep" phase, it makes sense to me that they could also choose whether to play dominants during this phase.

Therefore, it appears that the elders as a whole have several different positions on this issue, and we should discuss this on the other side. Hopefully we'll resolve it quickly and return with a consensus soon

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #31 on:** June 13, 2014, 09:54:28 AM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on June 13, 2014, 09:07:27 AM

My understanding of the system is that when 2 or more of the Elders agree in a thread about a ruling, then it can be considered official unless another elder posts in that thread that they disagree. In cases where there is disagreement, then the elders take the issue to the other side of the board to discuss it together. When they come to a conclusion, then they return to the original thread to post the consensus view, and all the Elders then support that ruling regardless of their personal opinions on the matter.

As for this particular thread, I agree with Redoubter that dominants would NOT be played during "Draw" phase of the turn. The "Draw" phase is indeed simply drawing the 3 (or 4 with Seven Years of Plenty) cards. When that has been done, the "Draw" phase is immediately over, and the "Upkeep" phase has begun.

If you go to the original thread where this was discussed, this was (at least in part) precisely the ruling that Gabe was disagreeing with. Gabe also claimed that his interpretation was equivalent to "Dominants can be played at any time" and is, thus, the status quo. Given this background and what you wrote in the first paragraph are we safe to interpret your agreement with Redoubter as advisory and *not* an official ruling?

As this whole discussion is about the "officialness" of this ruling in particular (and what we mean by "officialness" in general), I feel it would be best of we can clarify this point.

Master KChief · « **Reply #32 on:** June 13, 2014, 10:17:43 AM »

Redemption: the only CCG where 'how people have always played it' is the official ruling.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #33 on:** June 13, 2014, 10:57:28 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on June 13, 2014, 10:17:43 AM

Redemption: the only CCG where 'how people have always played it' is the official ruling.

To be more precise: How people in [insert your state here] have always played it.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #34 on:** June 13, 2014, 11:10:34 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on June 13, 2014, 10:17:43 AM

Redemption: the only CCG where 'how people have always played it' is the official ruling.

To be fair that's only because no one wants to do the paperwork.

Quote from: Gabe on June 09, 2013, 07:45:07 PM

I was just summarizing what I know. Presently it is not being discussed so that is not official. If those guys would like to make their interpretation official they are welcome to write up a change for the definition of a Dominant as well as the official rule book. Then we can make the change official. Until then, as far as I'm concerned, we stay with the status quo. That is, a Dominant can be played at any time.

Quote from: whiteandgold7 on June 12, 2014, 08:16:27 PM

I have read through the R.E.G. just now, and I do not see any other mention as to whether or not you can play Dominants During the Draw Phase.

It is awesome that these two are separated by almost exactly one year.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #35 on:** June 13, 2014, 01:07:16 PM »

Quote from: Westy on June 12, 2014, 10:01:04 PM

Question: is Dominant slapjack a thing then? While "Responding to your own action" isn't really a thing, that's the argument always used, but you can't really respond to an action from another phase. That's just silly.

Chris · « **Reply #36 on:** June 13, 2014, 01:11:44 PM »

Quote from: Westy on June 13, 2014, 01:07:16 PM

Quote from: Westy on June 12, 2014, 10:01:04 PM
Question: is Dominant slapjack a thing then? While "Responding to your own action" isn't really a thing, that's the argument always used, but you can't really respond to an action from another phase. That's just silly.

It seems people are divided on what the current status quo is. That would only be an issue if you can't play dominants during the draw or upkeep phases.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #37 on:** June 15, 2014, 08:10:02 PM »

I'm with Chris and Gabe.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #38 on:** June 15, 2014, 09:07:36 PM »

dominants are silly card types, lets just rule against them

DDiceRC · « **Reply #39 on:** June 15, 2014, 09:26:10 PM »

After reading this thread, I'm convinced that, Elders or no Elders, Redemption has no system to resolve disputes among players if an Elder is on opposite sides except waiting for Rob to say something official.

(My system is wait for a tournament, poll the Redemption veterans I trust there, and follow whatever their consensus is. Or, if it's a Regional, go with Dayne.)

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #40 on:** June 16, 2014, 01:50:16 AM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on June 13, 2014, 11:10:34 AM

Quote from: Master KChief on June 13, 2014, 10:17:43 AM
Redemption: the only CCG where 'how people have always played it' is the official ruling.

To be fair that's only because no one wants to do the paperwork.

I would do it if Rob would ask me to. I'd love to clean up the rules for this game. I'm sure some people would get annoyed at some of the choices I would make, but I've noticed that people will get annoyed no matter what happens.

The Guardian · « **Reply #41 on:** August 06, 2014, 01:34:37 PM »

The ruling for Nationals will be that you cannot play dominants during draw or upkeep phases.

However, Rob is open to continuing a discussion for a potential change that would take effect for next season.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #42 on:** August 06, 2014, 05:06:01 PM »

Quote from: Westy on June 12, 2014, 10:01:04 PM

Question: is Dominant slapjack a thing then? While "Responding to your own action" isn't really a thing, that's the argument always used, but you can't really respond to an action from another phase. That's just silly.

Gabe · « **Reply #43 on:** March 02, 2015, 07:35:40 PM »

Going forward we have decided to allow Dominants to be played during the draw phase and the upkeep phase. Here's an example of how this plays out.

Begin draw phase. Draw 3. Any player may play a Dominant.

Begin upkeep phase. Active player may resolve any number of "during upkeep" abilities in the order of their choosing. Any player may play a Dominant.

Begin preparation phase.

Praeceps · « **Reply #44 on:** March 02, 2015, 10:53:47 PM »

Thanks for getting back to us on this.

News:

Author Topic: UPDATE: Can You Play Dominants During the Draw Phase? -- Yes! (Read 5313 times)

Chris

Warrior_Monk

Chris

Warrior_Monk