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Author Topic: Identifiers are dumb - please fix  (Read 1857 times)

Offline Alex_Olijar

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Identifiers are dumb - please fix
« on: August 16, 2011, 12:35:25 PM »
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For years, the Redemption Card game has used a very loose and situational version of identifier rules for nationality that has caused lots of confusion. With many clarifications on rules coming out, it seems like a good time to bring this issue to light and try to solve it.

Examples of inconsistantcy and/or issues might need addressed:

Herods are Romans, but Daniel is not Babylonian and/or Persian
Joseph and Moses are not Egyptian, but Rachel and Leah are Syrian.
Rahab is not Israelite.


What exactly is in an identifier? Can we try to develop a central tenet to determine it please?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 06:07:05 PM by Alex_Olijar »
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Offline Smokey

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2011, 01:36:58 PM »
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Rachel and Leah are Syrian.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2011, 01:52:23 PM »
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Quote from: Smokey on August 16, 2011, 01:36:58 PM
Rachel and Leah are Syrian.

Ahh, good point, I had forgotten about that interestingly placed identifier.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 04:41:21 PM »
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Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 16, 2011, 12:35:25 PM
Herods are Romans, but Daniel is not Babylonian and/or Persian
Joseph and Moses are not Egyptian
Herods are Romans because there were a lot of respected sources that specifically talked about how they were given Roman citizenship.

I would imagine that Daniel could be classified as a Babylonian and/or Persian if you could find respected sources to that effect.  I would imagine that Joseph and Moses could be classified as Egyptian if you could find respected sources to that effect.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 04:48:55 PM »
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If by "respected sources" you mean that the Bible says Joseph and Daniel had power to make laws in Egpyt/Babylon, then I have.

Joseph for sure is Egyptian. He had Pharoah's signet ring and the power to do as he pleased.

But, you didn't really answer the question. What exactly is the tenet we use to define membership of a culture? We have been printing these identifiers for awhile but I'm not sure we have a defined way to determine them yet.
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Offline I am Knot a Blonde!

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2011, 04:50:53 PM »
+2
Well, if there's a pizza in the artowk then you know they're american.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 04:53:00 PM »
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The real difference between the Herods and Daniel, Moses and Joseph is that we have a well defined citizenship for Rome but not well defined citizenship for ancient Egypt, Babylon or Persia
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 04:53:54 PM »
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Pretty sure the regent of all Egypt was considered Egyptian by the Egyptians.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 04:54:18 PM »
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Citizenship shouldn't be defined on a case by case basis. There should be some general rule out there for it.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 16, 2011, 04:53:54 PM
Pretty sure the regent of all Egypt was considered Egyptian by the Egyptians.

But not by Redemption.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 04:59:41 PM »
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I would like to see Moses as an Egyptian Prince, and Joseph and Daniel as Egyptian and Babylonian/Persian, but its not quite as easy as saying Herods are Romans because they had Roman citizenship.

On a related note, is Moses considered royalty?
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Offline STAMP

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 05:00:11 PM »
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Back when I brought up that Leah and Rachel were Syrian, I also asked whether their sons should be considered Syrian, too, since most of the boys were born in Syria to full-blooded Syrian mothers.  Parents' lineage, birth, citizenship, slave ownership status...I'm not sure what definition could be created that doesn't create a few special circumstances.   :-\
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2011, 05:01:09 PM »
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Quote from: ChristianSoldier on August 16, 2011, 04:59:41 PM
On a related note, is Moses considered royalty?

No, but he should be. Redemption's use of identifiers is absurdly inconsistant.

Quote from: STAMP on August 16, 2011, 05:00:11 PM
Back when I brought up that Leah and Rachel were Syrian, I also asked whether their sons should be considered Syrian, too, since most of the boys were born in Syria to full-blooded Syrian mothers.  Parents' lineage, birth, citizenship, slave ownership status...I'm not sure what definition could be created that doesn't create a few special circumstances.   :-\

I don't even necessarily want a straight up definition to decide it, but it'd be nice to have a general idea other than "present your best case".
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browarod

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2011, 05:47:44 PM »
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Someone should start a Green Card thread where people can petition that certain characters gain "citizenship" (identifiers) in Redemption.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition UPDATE: The Green Card Thread
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2011, 05:49:33 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on August 16, 2011, 05:47:44 PM
Someone should start a Green Card thread where people can petition that certain characters gain "citizenship" (identifiers) in Redemption.

Sounds like a good idea.
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browarod

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Re: What's in an Identifier? Nationality edition UPDATE: The Green Card Thread
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2011, 06:06:17 PM »
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Made - Green Cards

I dug up some verses for Joseph and Daniel already, but I couldn't find specifics on Rahab.

Feel free to post anything for anyone and I'll add it to the petitions.
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Offline Smokey

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Re: Identifiers are dumb - please fix
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2011, 06:09:02 PM »
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Alex, yuno use less trolly titles to get your legitimate ideas heard.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Identifiers are dumb - please fix
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2011, 06:09:53 PM »
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Quote from: Smokey on August 16, 2011, 06:09:02 PM
Alex, yuno use less trolly titles to get your legitimate ideas heard.

I like this title - it's short and to the point.
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Identifiers are dumb - please fix
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2011, 11:17:56 PM »
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I thought it was about Green Brigade Cards... :)
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