Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: RTSmaniac on May 01, 2010, 03:38:25 PM
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can i play brass serpent on heros discarded from hand?
Brass Serpent (Promo)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard all poisons and diseases in play. Heal all Heroes not at full strength. • Errata: Discard all poisons and diseases in play. Heal all Heroes in play. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Numbers 21:8 • Availability: Promotional cards (2001 District Tournament)
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can i play brass serpent on heros discarded from hand?
Brass Serpent (Promo)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard all poisons and diseases in play. Heal all Heroes not at full strength. • Errata: Discard all poisons and diseases in play. Heal all Heroes in play. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Numbers 21:8 • Availability: Promotional cards (2001 District Tournament)
i say no... Hand to discard pile... they were never if play to be healed
another in-game-with-RTSmaniac question
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yea im good at it
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yea im good at it
at creating interesting scenarios? ya
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Any other Healing card would work, but Brass Serpent specifies "in play."
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Any other Healing card would work, but Brass Serpent specifies "in play."
just what i thought
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But cards default to play don't they?
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Don't pretty much all healing cards say "in play"? I thought those were just, like, clarification words, like those on the old PotW and Nero...
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so this play doesnt work? then how does I am Holy + Chamber work then?
Chamber of Angels
Type: Fortress • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Set this fortress aside. If holder's angel is being discarded, place it here instead. After two turns, return Hero to the top of your draw pile. • Identifiers: Holds any number of Angels • Verse: Revelation 4:8 • Availability: Angel Wars booster packs (Rare)
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Unless something has changed in the past 3 months this should work. Brass serpent should heal any hero that has been d/c'd that turn in any way. As per the definition of a healing card.
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Unless something has changed in the past 3 months this should work. Brass serpent should heal any hero that has been d/c'd that turn in any way. As per the definition of a healing card.
+1. That is how I've always played it.
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I would disagree, but I am usually wrong. Healing enhancements can heal a hero at any time before the end of the turn, but the Discard Phase is the end of the turn. If you discard a card in the Discard Phase, it is too late to do anything about it.
Secondly, only a hero can be targeted for healing, and a card discarded from hand does not enter play, so it is not "known" to be a hero. I don't see how such a card can be targetted as a hero. Basically I am following the idea behind a converted Huge Egyptian still being able to discard the top card from deck. If that card happened to be a hero, the whole "converted ECs cannot target/harm a hero" does not apply, does it?
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I would disagree, but I am usually wrong. Healing enhancements can heal a hero at any time before the end of the turn, but the Discard Phase is the end of the turn.
Correction: The end of the discard phase is the end of the turn. You can still do several things in the discard phase besides discarding, including playing TC/High Places Enhancments, placing characters, sites or Forts in play, setting characters aside, etc. I have no idea why I couldn't heal a hero during this time with a healing card, according to the idea that healing cards can heal at any time during the turn.
Secondly, only a hero can be targeted for healing, and a card discarded from hand does not enter play, so it is not "known" to be a hero. I don't see how such a card can be targetted as a hero. Basically I am following the idea behind a converted Huge Egyptian still being able to discard the top card from deck. If that card happened to be a hero, the whole "converted ECs cannot target/harm a hero" does not apply, does it?
Healing has always been a kind of confusing issue for me, in that its targets seem to always have been ruled as "any hero discarded from anywhere at anytime during this turn." Which goes against what we know about most special abilities, but healing has always been kind of an anomaly in the SA department anyway, since they have nearly dominant status as long as a hero of their color is/was in your territory or battle. Imma go read up on it from the REG, and see what it says.
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Correction: The end of the discard phase is the end of the turn. You can still do several things in the discard phase besides discarding, including playing TC/High Places Enhancments, placing characters, sites or Forts in play, setting characters aside, etc. I have no idea why I couldn't heal a hero during this time with a healing card, according to the idea that healing cards can heal at any time during the turn.
I still disagree, based on the rulebook:
Redemption® Rulebook > Diagram of a Turn > Discard Phase
You may perform as many of these actions as often as you choose:
• Place a character (cross or dragon icon) into your territory.
• Place an artifact face down into your artifact pile.
• Place a site into your territory.
• Set aside a character.
• Place a weapon-class enhancement on a warrior-class character in your territory.
Place a fortress on the table. At this time its special ability becomes active
After you have completed all the actions you choose, you must reduce the cards in your hand to eight or less. If you have eight or fewer cards in your hand, then you should announce that you are finished. If you have more than eight cards in your hand, then you should reduce the cards in your hand down to eight or fewer by discarding cards from your hand face up on the top of your discard pile.
This ends your turn. Play now passes to the left.
I highlighted what I feel are the pertinent parts. I agree that you can do all kinds of things during the Discard Phase, but discarding from hand is the last thing you do, which ends your turn.
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Oh, I see. You assumed that the hero discarded from hand in the original question was discarded during the discard phase. I made the assumption that the hero was discarded from hand during another part of the turn (like to use I am Holy or when opponent blocks with King Menahem and discards a hero). I agree that you can't discard a hero from hand during your discard phase, then heal him afterwards. Also, I'm not even sure why you'd want to, since putting the hero in your territory and discarding the healing card has the exact same effect. Which is why I made the assumption that the discard was happening at an earlier phase.
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Oh, I see. You assumed that the hero discarded from hand in the original question was discarded during the discard phase. I made the assumption that the hero was discarded from hand during another part of the turn (like to use I am Holy or when opponent blocks with King Menahem and discards a hero). I agree that you can't discard a hero from hand during your discard phase, then heal him afterwards. Also, I'm not even sure why you'd want to, since putting the hero in your territory and discarding the healing card has the exact same effect. Which is why I made the assumption that the discard was happening at an earlier phase.
it wasn't at discard :P i was for TGWidow
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Oh, I see. You assumed that the hero discarded from hand in the original question was discarded during the discard phase. I made the assumption that the hero was discarded from hand during another part of the turn (like to use I am Holy or when opponent blocks with King Menahem and discards a hero). I agree that you can't discard a hero from hand during your discard phase, then heal him afterwards. Also, I'm not even sure why you'd want to, since putting the hero in your territory and discarding the healing card has the exact same effect. Which is why I made the assumption that the discard was happening at an earlier phase.
it wasn't at discard :P i was for TGWidow
As I suspected.
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Oh, I see. You assumed that the hero discarded from hand in the original question was discarded during the discard phase. I made the assumption that the hero was discarded from hand during another part of the turn (like to use I am Holy or when opponent blocks with King Menahem and discards a hero). I agree that you can't discard a hero from hand during your discard phase, then heal him afterwards. Also, I'm not even sure why you'd want to, since putting the hero in your territory and discarding the healing card has the exact same effect. Which is why I made the assumption that the discard was happening at an earlier phase.
I was trying to cover both circumstances. Since we were talking about Brass Serpent, the benefit of healing would have affected any other heroes discarded during the turn besides the one discarded during the Discard Phase.
Regarding the actual scenario, Brass Serpent specifically says to heal heroes "in play," which would be the default anyway. A card discarded from hand to discard pile is never "in play," so I don't see how it can be healed just because it happened to be a hero.
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Last I knew they magically went to play as they were d/c'd.
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Last I knew they magically went to play as they were d/c'd.
We don't talk about Magic on these boards. ;)
Is that an official ruling, that cards discarded are "in play" before they are discarded? If so, then I would agree Brass Serpent could heal them. I am unaware that such was the rule.
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Im still waiting on this ruling as well...
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Redemption® Rulebook > Diagram of a Turn > Discard Phase
You may perform as many of these actions as often as you choose:
• Place a character (cross or dragon icon) into your territory.
• Place an artifact face down into your artifact pile.
• Place a site into your territory.
• Set aside a character.
• Place a weapon-class enhancement on a warrior-class character in your territory.
Place a fortress on the table. At this time its special ability becomes active
After you have completed all the actions you choose, you must reduce the cards in your hand to eight or less. If you have eight or fewer cards in your hand, then you should announce that you are finished. If you have more than eight cards in your hand, then you should reduce the cards in your hand down to eight or fewer by discarding cards from your hand face up on the top of your discard pile.
This ends your turn. Play now passes to the left.
Did anyone notice how this doesn't say you can play a healing enhancement?
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Did anyone notice how this doesn't say you can play a healing enhancement?
The rules for Healing enhancements say that you can. It also does not say you can place enhancements that are not weapon-class, but Darius' Decree says that you can anyway. Other rules and SA can specifically override normal game rules.
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Brass Serpent, Brass funky serpent. Brass funky junky. That funky serpent.