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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Watchman on May 07, 2019, 11:38:16 AM

Title: Bear (CoW)
Post by: Watchman on May 07, 2019, 11:38:16 AM: “Protect lost souls from rescue unless Bear is discarded.”

If Bear loses by the numbers does this count as being discarded, or is the ability specifically referring to a discard ability?
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: The Guardian on May 07, 2019, 01:32:59 PM: Yes, losing the battle by numbers counts as being discarded.
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: Josh on May 07, 2019, 03:06:00 PM: Quote from: The Guardian on May 07, 2019, 01:32:59 PM
Yes, losing the battle by numbers counts as being discarded.

This seems inconsistent with "Protected from discard", which has been ruled to mean "Protected from discard abilities".

So if Bear was returned to hand during battle, and then was discarded from hand by something like Dove, would that turn off Bear's protection?
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: Kevinthedude on May 07, 2019, 03:13:19 PM: Quote from: Josh on May 07, 2019, 03:06:00 PM
Quote from: The Guardian on May 07, 2019, 01:32:59 PM
Yes, losing the battle by numbers counts as being discarded.

This seems inconsistent with "Protected from discard", which has been ruled to mean "Protected from discard abilities".

So if Bear was returned to hand during battle, and then was discarded from hand by something like Dove, would that turn off Bear's protection?

If it's returned to hand then it resets to face value and the instance of Bear that the ability refers to no longer exists so if Bear is later discarded from hand then the game doesn't recognize it as the same Bear.
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: Sean on May 07, 2019, 03:40:03 PM: Please bear with me as I digress.

Koala Bear is qualified to resolve this dispute. Bearing in mind, however; Brown/Orange Bear is still best. However, Brown/Orange Bear is not willing to bare the cost to negate the protection of Crimson Bear. That said, I'm sure that this discussion will bear fruit in the form of increased use of all Bears, well, at least Two Bears.
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: thecoolguy on May 07, 2019, 03:55:06 PM: I can't bear the amount of times you said bear ::)
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: Gabe on May 07, 2019, 03:57:37 PM: Quote from: Josh on May 07, 2019, 03:06:00 PM
This seems inconsistent with "Protected from discard", which has been ruled to mean "Protected from discard abilities".

Maybe you can elaborate on what you feel is inconsistent?

I don't find anything inconsistent about Justin's (correct) ruling, but the game's use of "discard" to mean multiple things can be a little confusing which is possibly why this question was raised in the first place.
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: Watchman on May 07, 2019, 04:12:38 PM: Quote from: Gabe on May 07, 2019, 03:57:37 PM
but the game's use of "discard" to mean multiple things can be a little confusing which is possibly why this question was raised in the first place.

Correct. The same goes for new Job ("protected from discard") and any other ability that reads something like "if discarded."
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: RedemptionAggie on May 07, 2019, 04:17:34 PM: I think protection is the only thing limited to abilities. Triggers/Conditions just care that something happens, not how/why it happens. Otherwise a bunch of LS shouldn't activate if drawn by game rule.
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: The Guardian on May 07, 2019, 04:33:27 PM: From great scenes in television history...

Spoiler (hover to show)
(https://pics.me.me/what-kind-of-bear-is-best-thats-a-dievlous-question-31137443.png)
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: Watchman on May 07, 2019, 04:36:46 PM: Quote from: RedemptionAggie on May 07, 2019, 04:17:34 PM
I think protection is the only thing limited to abilities. Triggers/Conditions just care that something happens, not how/why it happens. Otherwise a bunch of LS shouldn't activate if drawn by game rule.

Then wouldn't that be tied to Bear's lost soul protect ability?

@Guardian - Nice insert ;)
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: RedemptionAggie on May 07, 2019, 04:49:49 PM: Quote from: Watchman on May 07, 2019, 04:36:46 PM
Quote from: RedemptionAggie on May 07, 2019, 04:17:34 PM
I think protection is the only thing limited to abilities. Triggers/Conditions just care that something happens, not how/why it happens. Otherwise a bunch of LS shouldn't activate if drawn by game rule.

Then wouldn't that be tied to Bear's lost soul protect ability?

@Guardian - Nice insert ;)

The targets of the protect are only protected from the abilities (or cards) specified by the protect effect. "Unless Bear is discarded" is a condition that potentially overrides the default end of the protect, not a target of the protect.
Title: Re: Bear (CoW)
Post by: Watchman on May 07, 2019, 05:00:17 PM: 10-4. So the official ruling is whether Bear is discarded by an ability or by the numbers the souls are not protected.

Thanks to all.